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Thread: People get OUTRAGED!

  1. #1
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    Feb 2001
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    Post People get OUTRAGED!

    From dailykos:

    "Four thousand U.S. service members have died in U.S. President George W. Bush’s ‘war on terror’ in Iraq and Afghanistan 5 1/2 years after American forces ousted the Taliban in December 2001." AP adds, "All told, Congress has appropriated $610 billion in war-related money since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror assaults, roughly the same as the war in Vietnam. Iraq alone has cost $450 billion." The wars cost approximately $12 billion a month, according to a new Congressional Research Service report.

    I just read that there are now more private war contractors operating in Iraq than official US military people. These people are making billions off of YOU. These people are squandering billions of YOUR tax dollars that could be better spent right here at home. This war of choice has less to do with terrorism than it has to do with the enrichment of private interests- at huge expense.
    Write, call or camp out at your Congressperson's doorstep and DEMAND that they put an end to this nonsense. This isn't a "surge"......it's a SPLURGE. It has been from the beginning. Just how immoral and irresponsible are we going to be? Get outraged, demand action......NOW!

  2. #2
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    Re: People get OUTRAGED!

    yaaaahhhh....POWER TO THE PEOPLE... Freedom never has been free... EVIL needs to be trounced.... there are those over there also by their own accord reines and they know a hell of a lot more about the situation than you and I both combined...

    smoke on that for a while

  3. #3
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    Re: People get OUTRAGED!

    Bigeasy, I do agree tha evil needs to be dealt with. However, have you noticed that evil ones tend to not think of themselves as evil? Our terrorist enemies tend to think that they are good, and we are evil. They believe they are on a mission from God to "trounce" the "Great Satan".
    The Nazis, the Communists, and all of our enemies that we have fought during our history didn't believe themselves to be "evil" either. How and why did the German people rally behind Hitler and his philosophies? Did they all turn evil and know it? Or were they decieved into thinking sending thier Jewish neighbors to thier deaths and conquering the world is a good thing?

    Our terrorist enemies however, are quite different than the enemies we have fought before. They do not believe they are defeated by our bombs, our troops, and the weapons we have at our disposal. Instead, it empowers them. Like sadomasochists, pain gives them pleasure. If pain is inflicted on them, it pleases them. If they are the ones inflicting the pain, it still pleases them.
    They will use any incident whether it is a victory for us or a victory for them as a means to inspire others into joining thier fight. If defeated, they will use such incidents to claim themselves as the victims of American imperialism. If victorious, they will think they are one step closer to thier ultimate goal. Either way, they win. They will never think of themselves as "losing". Going in the direction we are in now, we will be in this war until the last Muslim is dead, and history will see us as genocidal monsters.
    Therefore, something different has to be done. Not necessarily abandoning the War On Terrorism, but fighting it in a different manner.

    I think of terrorism as the ultimate form of organized crime. Something that our law enforcement and intelligence agencies need to deal with, not our military. Organized crime tends to take advantage of situations where legal protection (IE: police) is inadequate to certain communities. Many of them offer "protection".
    Many of the governments in the Muslim world are too weak to do anything about us one on one, and an alliance is close to impossible given the kind of fractures the Muslim world has. Very few of these governments are willing to pool thier resources under the leadership of a single person either. Nor are the willing to face the consequences of going against us if they do something against us.
    Therefore, they use terrorist groups to do thier bidding for them. They are independent of any government, and they will take assistance and membership from individuals from multiple countries. The terrorist groups will use such resources, and pool them under the leadership of a single person. The Muslim countries don't have to claim responsibility for the terrorist actions, and for the most part are safe from retalliation. Meanwhile, the terrorists can do as they please, draining our resources and economy while these Muslim countries go about thier usual business unscathed.
    As for Iraq and Afghanistan, our efforts there are still too inadequate to effectively protect the Iraqi and Afghani populace, even from everyday crimes, nor do many of them trust us. Therefore, they turn terrorists and insurgents (usually of the same religious group) and they once again offer protection to those Iraqis and Afghanis that don't believe our efforts there are effective enough to protect them.

  4. #4
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    Post Re: People get OUTRAGED!

    Quote Originally Posted by big easy View Post
    yaaaahhhh....POWER TO THE PEOPLE... Freedom never has been free... EVIL needs to be trounced.... there are those over there also by their own accord reines and they know a hell of a lot more about the situation than you and I both combined...

    smoke on that for a while
    Oh, you mean the troops over there now? Yeah, a poll in the Army Times last December showed that the number of troops who think victory is likely has fallen from 83% to 50%. 42% disapproved of Bush's handling of the war overall. The military doesn't want this war- never wanted it, and knows better than anyone how reckless, stupid and immoral it all was! Why do you think such an unprecedented amount of retired generals have spoken out against it?
    Why doesn't Bush listen to what the military says? Because he hasn't from day one. And he's still lying to the public. Just yesterday he repeated the LIE again that we are mainly fighting al Qaeda in Iraq- when his own generals have said publicly that al Qaeda is only a very, very small part of the folks fighting us there. Why does Bush say the opposite of what his generals (who are there) say?
    And there's a bigger point here bigeasy- the military doesn't and shouldn't decide public policy or run the country. We're not Pakistan....are we? The public, who's tax dollars are paying for this fiasco, and who's grandchildren will be suffering from the fallout from it, have the perfect right to decide that enough is enough.
    The military-industrial complex is always going to want the focus to be on fighting wars- always. They are always going to want bigger and more expensive weapons and programs and systems. But that doesn't mean that we either need them....or should have them.
    Sure, "evil" needs to be resisted. But you don't fight evil by acting evil yourself. You don't fight violence by acting more violent. And you don't cultivate peace by promoting endless war.

  5. #5
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    Re: People get OUTRAGED!

    we ARE fighting al quaida... they are evil...we must do more and kick their ass...

  6. #6
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    Re: People get OUTRAGED!

    I am outraged, but not at the spending of the money, and HOW it was spent. Tell me how much of that went to troops and the supplies they need to fight. How much have we spent on protecting them? Obviously not enough. Breakout for me how much was spent on gov't contracts for shoddy work and how much padded the pockets of contractors with no accountability by our own Gov't for what they did with the money. I don't even care if they're GW friends or not.

    I'm outraged that we aren't kicking anybody's ass, we're losing because there is no strategy beyond stubborness. Where are the deadlines that must be met by the Iraqi gov't or we're leaving? Where's the building of Iraq as a new country? If its happening then why aren't we hearing about it. I'm outraged at the "journalists" that don't cover anything but public opinion polls.

    Mostly I'm outraged that my very good friend and my SIL's cousin is leaving Sat for his second tour. He's got 20 years into the Army reserve and you have to serve 21 to retire, he's serving his 21st year in Iraq. It sucks and I'm afraid for him and all the others. I'm outraged that there's no new plan of attack and no progress being reported on.

    I'm happy to spend the money to wipe out Al Q, I'm happy to spend whatever we need to for the safety of our troops. I'm not happy that so much of it has gone unaccounted for while our troops die.

  7. #7
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    Re: People get OUTRAGED!

    damn megan....damn....it is hard to argue your words of wisdom derived from personal experience...God bless your friend...

    Peace

  8. #8
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    Post Re: People get OUTRAGED!

    Quote Originally Posted by MeganG View Post
    I am outraged, but not at the spending of the money, and HOW it was spent. Tell me how much of that went to troops and the supplies they need to fight. How much have we spent on protecting them? Obviously not enough. Breakout for me how much was spent on gov't contracts for shoddy work and how much padded the pockets of contractors with no accountability by our own Gov't for what they did with the money. I don't even care if they're GW friends or not.

    I'm outraged that we aren't kicking anybody's ass, we're losing because there is no strategy beyond stubborness. Where are the deadlines that must be met by the Iraqi gov't or we're leaving? Where's the building of Iraq as a new country? If its happening then why aren't we hearing about it. I'm outraged at the "journalists" that don't cover anything but public opinion polls.

    Mostly I'm outraged that my very good friend and my SIL's cousin is leaving Sat for his second tour. He's got 20 years into the Army reserve and you have to serve 21 to retire, he's serving his 21st year in Iraq. It sucks and I'm afraid for him and all the others. I'm outraged that there's no new plan of attack and no progress being reported on.

    I'm happy to spend the money to wipe out Al Q, I'm happy to spend whatever we need to for the safety of our troops. I'm not happy that so much of it has gone unaccounted for while our troops die.
    Great post, Megan! This war will be argued for a long time as to whether it was truely in this country's best interest to invade Iraq. Your point about the military is right on! It does not matter how pro-war or anti-war someone is, but the fact is that units initially were sent to Iraq without sufficient numbers for the long haul. A surge, all this time later. Way too little and way too late. Also, the govt. neglected to provide them with adequate equipment for personal safety...the best body armor AND only recently has the govt. been investing in v-shape armor plating to deflect IED's which have killed so many. This is years later!! How in God's name was this not a priority to begin with! After-care treatment of the tens of thousands coming back with agregious wounds... is not stellar after they leave Walter Reed, etc.

    If not each and every American is not outraged by the above, then those who claim to support the troops are giving nothing more than lip service to support a political agenda.

    Thank God, all I know who have served are each one back in the US now. The last one, showed up on Christmas Eve at our door after going home and finding that his marriage was over. Two little kids, months away from home over and over again with back-to-back tours...did not help. He's regular army, one tour in Korea, one in Afghanistan, two in Iraq. He loves the army and re-upt after 8 years, but only did so after he was insured that he wouldn't be redeployed back to Iraq (he was a patrol squad leader in Baghdad).

    These years later...speaking of Iraq. There was never a strategy except to invade the country and take out Hussien (and get control of Iraq's oil, which has failed miserably at the hands of the insurgents). Even though I sometimes question the intelligence of those (both parties) we elect to high office, it's apparent that few ever read history and what's happened before when other countries have tired to change and control certain Arab or Persian nations. It's failed each time! And, why? It's because of the various cultures who have their agenda of what they want their country to be like, and includes religious definitions for many. Democracy is not appealed for in the Koran.

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