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Thread: Elizabeth on THE VIEW

  1. #25
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    Post Re: Elizabeth on THE VIEW

    I need to ask you a question given your view on a fetus not being considered a person, or even a life deserving of a chance to become what you and I are today.
    Why is it that when a pregnant woman is murdered, is it considered a double homicide?
    I just really need to hear your logic on this one.
    Thank you.

  2. #26
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    Post Re: Elizabeth on THE VIEW

    I reject your categorization of my views. Who said I don't consider a fetus a person? Or a life deserving of what you and I have? Nowhere have I said such things.
    My only point is that lateterm abortions are rare......0.08% of all abortions performed annually. Most always performed because the fetus is either dead or severely malformed...with no chance to live if born. Or because continuing to carry the child causes great risk to the mother.
    No, Jennyc, these aren't lazy, reckless, immoral women rushing to rid themselves of their babies because they don't want to be burdened!
    The pro-life movement has greatly distorted the whole issue of late-term abortions just to get their foot in the door towards banning all abortions.
    I personally think the mother's life takes precedence over the fetus's. So does the Supreme Court. Abortion isn't going away.


    Late-Term Abortion Saved These Women's Lives Run Date: 10/28/04By Molly M. Ginty
    WeNews correspondentAs the so-called Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act enters the campaign-season debate, three women who have had third-trimester abortions are fighting to preserve access to a procedure that may have saved their lives.
    (WOMENSENEWS)--Tammy Watts sat and seethed.
    Perched on the edge of her couch in Queen Creek, Ariz., she could barely contain her frustration as she watched the last two presidential debates.
    When President George W. Bush and Senator John Kerry discussed the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act, Watts clenched her fists.
    When Bush used the term "partial-birth abortion" and called it a "brutal practice," she buried her head in her hands.
    Unlike many American voters, Watts knows that "partial-birth abortion" does not exist. Coined by anti-choice activists, this term cannot be found in any medical dictionary. Its imprecision, according to defenders of choice, could target a whole host of procedures.
    In political forums like the presidential debates, this catchphrase has worked its way into usage and is widely assumed to mean late-term abortions, that is, those occuring in the last three months. Though Bush calls these procedures "brutal," they maybe necessary to save the lives of women such as Watts, whose pregnancy entailed a rare complication.
    "This ban threatens the lives of women who need emergency procedures," says Watts. "It's also so vaguely-worded that it could be used to outlaw any type of abortion."
    Late-Term Abortions Save Women's Lives

    If the ban were in place in 1995, Tammy Watts would likely be dead, she says.
    In March of that year, Watts was in the eighth month of a much-wanted pregnancy and was eagerly anticipating the birth of her first child. During a routine ultrasound (the only way to detect abnormalities that require late-term abortion), she discovered her baby had Trisomy 13, a chromosomal abnormality that causes severe deformities and carries no hope of survival.
    Because her baby was already dying and because this put her own life at stake, Watts had an intact dilation and extraction (D and X), the procedure that Bush condemns as "brutal."
    "Losing my baby at the end of my pregnancy was agonizing," says Watts. "But the way the right deals with this issue makes it even worse. When I heard Bush mention 'partial birth abortion' during the debates, I thought 'How dare you stand there and tell flat-out lies?' There is no such thing as this procedure! Why won't the politicians listen to us?"
    Watts and other women affected by this issue have tried to make legislators listen.
    Testimony on Capitol Hill

    When Congress first considered the ban in 1995, Watts testified on Capitol Hill. So did Viki Wilson of Fresno, Calif., who had a late-term abortion because the brain of the fetus she was carrying had developed outside the skull. So did Vikki Stella of Naperville, Ill., whose fetus had dwarfism, no brain tissue and seven other major abnormalities.
    All three women told legislators they owed their health to late-term abortions and that a continuation of their doomed pregnancies posed grave health risks such as stroke, paralysis, infertility or even death.
    As they campaign to save access to these procedures, Watts, Stella and Wilson point out that in virtually all cases, late-term abortions are the only way to respond to unanticipated complications: the death of the fetus inside the womb, problems that mean the fetus can't live outside the womb, or serious threats to the mother's health.
    "No women has these procedures for frivolous reasons," says Stella. "They have them because it's their only choice."
    In its Roe v. Wade decision, the Supreme Court acknowledged this fact, giving states permission to regulate--or even proscribe--terminations of pregnancies except "where necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother."
    Watts, Stella and Wilson note that late-term abortions are sanctioned by many medical professional groups. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, Washington, D.C., calls intact D and X--a commonly used late-term procedure--"the most appropriate and safest" option in some cases. The American Nurses Association, Silver Spring, Md., and the American Medical Women's Association, Alexandria, Va., also approve the practice.
    Pro-choice advocates also note that despite all the political hoopla, intact D and X procedures are very rare, accounting for only 2,200 of the 1 million U.S. abortions performed each year.
    When Congress approved the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act in October 2003--and when Bush signed it into law in November--Watts, Stella and Wilson were horrified.
    Relief came immediately with court injunctions. This summer federal judges in California, Nebraska and New York all ruled the ban unconstitutional because it contradicts a Supreme Court decision that rejected similar legislation in 2000.



  3. #27
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    Re: Elizabeth on THE VIEW

    It kind of sickens me the way it was described during a late term abortion. Actually the baby's head is delivered, they cut the back of the head open and insert a vacuum into the brain and suck it out. While this little baby is still alive. That is INHUMANE! Its disgusting and I for one would never be able to do this.

    And sorry this woman above stating that she had a procedure needs to call it what it was. Her baby was murdered and therefor that is an abortion

  4. #28
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    Re: Elizabeth on THE VIEW

    Oh I know it isn't going away.
    Sorry if I offended you. From what you say, and have said, I assumed that was your view.
    I have also read stories of late term abortions that have been performed simply because a woman didn't want her baby. her life wasnt' in danger, and the baby was healthy.
    Obviously there are awful circumstances and people are faced with tough choices.
    Clearly my main problem with abortion itself is people who are careless, and use it as a form of birth control. And I am absolutely appalled that the school nurse cannot give my daughter a tylenol at school, but that some feel it would be ok if she were ushered in for an abortion without my consent. THAT is a horrible horrible thing. And I'm not sure HOW you can defend that. Although I'm sure you will.

  5. #29
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    Post Re: Elizabeth on THE VIEW

    I don't know any doctor who would ethically perform such an abortion......especially since it's against the law.
    I hate abortion- wish it never had to happen. There's nothing more precious than a BABY!
    But unfortunately.......we don't live in a perfect world where every baby is born to a mother who can love and provide for him or her...........or is formed perfectly and able to live.
    I just think the mother's body takes precedence over the fetus's. It makes sense. And I also think we need to take better care of those already alive.....before we worry about bringing more unwanted children into an already over-populated world. I know, I know.......lots of families would love to adopt. But if every baby aborted tomorrow was magically allowed to grow and be born...there still wouldn't be enough families, resources or space for all of them.
    I'm not trying to sound cold hearted..........just realistic.

  6. #30
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    Post Re: Elizabeth on THE VIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by reines View Post
    I reject your categorization of my views. Who said I don't consider a fetus a person? Or a life deserving of what you and I have? Nowhere have I said such things.
    I also don't recall you saying such things.. In fact - I think I was the one on this board that argued so fervently in the past for a woman's right to an abortion .. at any time -- and it was for the very reason you state reines.. that I felt those against abortion were trying to make late term abortions illegal in order to eventually outlaw all abortions.

    I have to say now that I think late term abortions should illegal, unless a mother's life is at risk... or the baby would die right after birth... etc. Megan had a good post about this earlier. As far as other abortions, I have trouble with this because I still think a woman should have the right to choose.. but to believe that life does not begin at conception would be to ignore all the educaton that I've had in biology. So where do we draw the line. Really, I'm much more perplexed about this issue than I was before.
    MC

  7. #31
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    Post Re: Elizabeth on THE VIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by minicooper View Post
    I also don't recall you saying such things.. In fact - I think I was the one on this board that argued so fervently in the past for a woman's right to an abortion .. at any time -- and it was for the very reason you state reines.. that I felt those against abortion were trying to make late term abortions illegal in order to eventually outlaw all abortions.

    I have to say now that I think late term abortions should illegal, unless a mother's life is at risk... or the baby would die right after birth... etc. Megan had a good post about this earlier. As far as other abortions, I have trouble with this because I still think a woman should have the right to choose.. but to believe that life does not begin at conception would be to ignore all the educaton that I've had in biology. So where do we draw the line. Really, I'm much more perplexed about this issue than I was before.
    Well first of all, there is NO instance in which, if the mother's life is at risk, and she is past 25 weeks gestation, that the procedure should be called an ABORTION. The baby should be DELIVERED, and given medical care. And even prior to that, if the mother's life is at risk such as in a ruptured uterus or other life threatening situation, purposefully KILLING the baby by puncturing it's skull and sucking it's brains out seems awfully drastic, don't you think? Why can't they simply remove the fetus from the womb, keep it warm and comfortable and let it die peacefully? I just don't get that!! And as far as Reines' assertion that late term abortions don't happen...a quick google search shows that there are lots of places you can get them!

  8. #32
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    Re: Elizabeth on THE VIEW

    Jenny -- I have a confession to make.. I've never delivered a baby... My sons (whom I love dearly) are my stepsons from Randy's first marriage. So.. I see what you are saying above... just understand that I don't have your experiences. However, I do see where you are coming from and your views about late term abortions..
    MC

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