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Thread: Why the prosecutors were really fired......

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
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    Post Why the prosecutors were really fired......

    They wouldn't "prosecute" voter fraud- because they just couldn't find much that was prosectuable. But that wasn't good enough for the true believers- who insist that, despite evidence to the contrary, voter fraud must be rampant.
    Well- just rampant enough to justify throwing enough poor people off the voting rolls so that Republicans once again can steal more elections.
    Makes you wonder why they just can't win them honestly? Perhaps a majority of Americans just aren't buying what they're selling? Never mind- as with most other things- this administration chooses to make it's own reality. Never based on facts or reality- but only based on wishful thinking and ideology.
    That's why they screwed everything up so badly.

    April 11, 2007
    Panel Said to Alter Finding on Voter Fraud
    By IAN URBINA
    WASHINGTON, April 10 — A federal panel responsible for conducting election research played down the findings of experts who concluded last year that there was little voter fraud around the nation, according to a review of the original report obtained by The New York Times.

    Instead, the panel, the Election Assistance Commission, issued a report that said the pervasiveness of fraud was open to debate.

    The revised version echoes complaints made by Republican politicians, who have long suggested that voter fraud is widespread and justifies the voter identification laws that have been passed in at least two dozen states.

    Democrats say the threat is overstated and have opposed voter identification laws, which they say disenfranchise the poor, members of minority groups and the elderly, who are less likely to have photo IDs and are more likely to be Democrats.

    Though the original report said that among experts “there is widespread but not unanimous agreement that there is little polling place fraud,” the final version of the report released to the public concluded in its executive summary that “there is a great deal of debate on the pervasiveness of fraud.”

    The topic of voter fraud, usually defined as people misrepresenting themselves at the polls or improperly attempting to register voters, remains a lively division between the two parties. It has played a significant role in the current Congressional investigation into the Bush administration’s firing of eight United States attorneys, several of whom, documents now indicate, were dismissed for being insufficiently aggressive in pursuing voter fraud cases.

    The report also addressed intimidation, which Democrats see as a more pervasive problem.

    And two weeks ago, the panel faced criticism for refusing to release another report it commissioned concerning voter identification laws. That report, which was released after intense pressure from Congress, found that voter identification laws designed to fight fraud can reduce turnout, particularly among members of minorities. In releasing that report, which was conducted by a different set of scholars, the commission declined to endorse its findings, citing methodological concerns.

    A number of election law experts, based on their own research, have concluded that the accusations regarding widespread fraud are unjustified. And in this case, one of the two experts hired to do the report was Job Serebrov, a Republican elections lawyer from Arkansas, who defended his research in an e-mail message obtained by The Times that was sent last October to Margaret Sims, a commission staff member.

    “Tova and I worked hard to produce a correct, accurate and truthful report,” Mr. Serebrov wrote, referring to Tova Wang, a voting expert with liberal leanings from the Century Foundation and co-author of the report. “I could care less that the results are not what the more conservative members of my party wanted.”

    He added: “Neither one of us was willing to conform results for political expediency.”

    For contractual reasons, neither Ms. Wang nor Mr. Serebrov were at liberty to comment on their original report and the discrepancies with the final, edited version.

    The original report on fraud cites “evidence of some continued outright intimidation and suppression” of voters by local officials, especially in some American Indian communities, while the final report says only that voter “intimidation is also a topic of some debate because there is little agreement concerning what constitutes actionable voter intimidation.”

    The original report said most experts believe that “false registration forms have not resulted in polling place fraud,” but the final report cites “registration drives by nongovernmental groups as a source of fraud.”

    Although Democrats accused the board of caving to political pressure, Donetta L. Davidson, the chairwoman of the commission, said that when the original report was submitted, the board’s legal and research staff decided there was not enough supporting data behind some of the claims. So, she said, the staff members revised the report and presented a final version in December for a vote by the commissioners.

    “We were a small agency taking over a huge job,” said Ms. Davidson, who was appointed to the agency by President Bush in 2005. “I think we may have tried to do more research than we were equipped to handle.” She added that the commission had “always stuck to being bipartisan.”

    The commission, which was created by Congress in 2002 to conduct nonpartisan research on elections, consists of two Republicans and two Democrats. At the time of the report, one of the two Democrats had left for personal reasons and had not yet been replaced, but the final report was unanimously approved by the other commissioners.

    Gracia Hillman, the Democratic commissioner who voted in favor of releasing the final report, said she did not believe that the editing of the report was politically motivated or overly extensive.

    “As a federal agency, our responsibility is to ensure that the research we produce is fully verified,” Ms. Hillman said. “Some of the points made in the draft report made by the consultants went beyond what we felt comfortable with.”

    The Republican Party’s interest in rooting out voter fraud has been encouraged by the White House. In a speech last April, Karl Rove, Mr. Bush’s senior political adviser, told a group of Republican lawyers that election integrity issues were an “enormous and growing” problem.

    “We’re, in some parts of the country, I’m afraid to say, beginning to look like we have elections like those run in countries where the guys in charge are colonels in mirrored sunglasses,” Mr. Rove said. “I mean, it’s a real problem.”

    Several Democrats said they believed that politics were behind the commission’s decision to rewrite the report.

    “This was the commission’s own study and it agreed in advance to how it would be done, but the most important part of it got dropped from the final version,” said Representative José E. Serrano, Democrat of New York and chairman of the House appropriations subcommittee that oversees the commission. “I don’t see how you can conclude that politics were not involved.”

    Representative Maurice D. Hinchey, another New York Democrat, who requested the draft report from Ms. Davidson during a subcommittee hearing last month, agreed.

    “By attempting to sweep this draft report under the rug, the E.A.C. is throwing out important work, wasting taxpayer dollars and creating a cloud of suspicion as to why it is acting this way,” he said.

    Some scholars and voting advocates said that the original report on fraud, for which the commission paid the authors more than $100,000, was less rigorous than it should have been. But they said they did not believe that was the reason for the changes.

    “Had the researchers been able to go even further than they did, they would have come to same conclusions but they would have had more analysis backing them up,” said Lorraine C. Minnite, a political science professor at Barnard College who is writing a book on voter fraud. “Instead, the commission rewrote their report and changed the thrust of its conclusions.”

    Ray Martinez III, the Democrat who left the commission for personal reasons, quit last August. He said in an interview that he was not present for any discussion or editing of the voter fraud report.

    Mr. Martinez added, however, that he had argued strenuously that all reports, in draft or final editions, should be made public. But he said he lost that argument with other commissioners.

    “Methodology concerns aside, we commissioned the reports with taxpayer funds, and I argued that they should be released,” he said, referring to the delay in the release of the voter ID report. “My view was that the public and the academics could determine whether it is rigorous and if it wasn’t then the egg was on our face for having commissioned it in the first place.”

    In recent months, the commission has been criticized for failing to provide proper oversight of the technology laboratories that test electronic voting machines and software. The commission is also responsible for conducting research and advising policy makers on the implementation of the Help America Vote Act, the federal overhaul of election procedure prompted by the 2000 Florida debacle.

    Eric Lipton contributed reporting.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 1998
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    89

    Re: Why the prosecutors were really fired......

    They make me sick.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    3,781

    Re: Why the prosecutors were really fired......

    proper ID's should always be required when voting... dems definitely beat Dornan in calif with illegals voting...

    the people who wish for less verification, are the ones who want to cheat

    if I had my way, people on welfare and those not making say...at least 15k per year, (verifiable)..shouldn't be voting anyway... if you are not helping pay the bills, then you should have no right to have a say so in how much I pay....the same reason I'm not allowed to vote at a sears stockholder's meeting

    the Founding Fathers had it right in the beginning...only landowners could vote...they knew the problems with "mob rule"..which is where we are today with a welfare state

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
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    9,507

    Post Re: Why the prosecutors were really fired......

    Quote Originally Posted by big easy View Post
    proper ID's should always be required when voting... dems definitely beat Dornan in calif with illegals voting...

    the people who wish for less verification, are the ones who want to cheat

    if I had my way, people on welfare and those not making say...at least 15k per year, (verifiable)..shouldn't be voting anyway... if you are not helping pay the bills, then you should have no right to have a say so in how much I pay....the same reason I'm not allowed to vote at a sears stockholder's meeting

    the Founding Fathers had it right in the beginning...only landowners could vote...they knew the problems with "mob rule"..which is where we are today with a welfare state
    C-mon, bigeasy- the notion that illegal aliens, who are presumably desperately trying to avoid being "caught", would actually turn out to vote is ludicrous. You really think most of them would risk their freedom and paychecks like that?
    And it amazes me that you would call democracy- "mob rule". Well- I guess it could be characterized that way- but considering the alternative, I'm just fine with the "mobs" having their say. The notion that only those with wealth or even a minimum of possessions should be allowed to exercize our most precious right as citizens is not only frightening- it goes against the very nature of our so-called democracy- that we have the right to SELF DETERMINATION of govt.!
    Not just the wealthy, not just those who've managed to accumulate land or possessions- all of us. We all are supposed to be citizens- with equal say in how our govt. functions. I don't know how you can just throw that foundation away so easily- or casually.
    Slippery slopes and all, bigeasy- after all, what's to stop them from eventually only letting those even wealthier or more successful vote? Where does it end? Is it so hard to imagine (once the precedent is set) that those who really have the power and control (read: wealth) will further narrow the posssible electorate? All in their best interests, of course.
    And certainly not in ours!

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