Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 25 to 32 of 43

Thread: Liar, Liar! Pants on fire!

  1. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    912

    Post Re: Liar, Liar! Pants on fire!

    Jolau -- In reply to ALL of your recent posts, re: the bond set, whether Zimmerman had access to the amount of money, etc..etc..etc... You once again make me shake my head (yes, I am beginning to think you are some naive child). As is typical, you know not what you speak (or type) of. You certainly behave as a naive child with your supposed knowledge of everything without EVER providing proof (except for the occasional post from some completely biased blog). You are merely a person presenting conjecture. In fact much of what I stated was conjecture as well... I never presented as factual... just my take of what might be happening and I have been persistent in stating we need to not rush to judgment. However, jolau calls me a liar... (yes -- I did call you a naive child above...and I do not back down from it).

    Prove to me in Florida that the bond set was not out of the ordinary.. prove it. Instead of calling me a LIAR... prove it. (I have some links to this effect... not proof, but some info below).
    This was an Arthur hearing and I have heard multiple reports state that the burden of proof was on the prosecution to prove that Zimmerman was dangerous and a flight risk. The prosecution did not do this and no one anticipated that they would. Instead, the prosecution fell flat on their faces, especially when one of the lead investigators stated "UNDER OATH" that they had no forensic proof whose voice was screaming in the 911 tapes, no proof that Zimmerman was not returning to his car at the time of the altercation, and no proof of who confronted whom. In addition, your claim that Zimmerman is a flight risk because he is in hiding is utterly laughable. Has it occured to you he is in hiding because of DEATH THREATS to him and his family... Does that not even occur to you?

    I do not know if Zimmerman is innocent or guilty. I just believe in a fair trial for all and am disgusted by individuals such as yourself who basically treat their own conjecture as factual and refuse to wait for the justice system to do their job. It is revolting. Zimmerman may very well be found guilty but we have to WAIT AND SEE... not be tried in the public court of jolau's nonsensical and pre-conceived ideas.

    Also -- Do you really think those incarcerated are allowed wireless access or to keep cell phones? Only if someone manages to sneak one in as contraband.. I have posted links to the jail where Zimmerman was kept detailing inmates personal posessions allowed and what happens to the posessions of visitors. Over a roughly 1.5 week period, you claim that Zimmerman, who was kept isolated from other prisoners for his safety, was able to somehow get a cell phone and was happily aware of the amount of money in his paypal account.

    You also assume that all the money had been collected at the time of the bond hearing .. Do you have a timeline of the funds for the paypal account, when each donation was received, from whom the donations came from, etc.? And -- Are you certain that someone other than Zimmerman was monitoring this paypal account during Zimmerman's incarceration? Again - COMPLETE CONJECTURE ON YOUR PART, yet you blatantly state that I was lying when all I was presenting was conjecture as well... I certainly did not present it as fact. Again -- I find your insistance that you know what went down in Sanford, before the facts of the case that the prosecutor has have been revealed in discovery, and a court of law has either thrown out the case or ruled... disgusting. Just exactly who do you think you are? Apparently you believe you are the all-knowing one.

    And about donating to Obama... never, ever in my lifetime will I consider doing such a thing. Major dissapointment as a POTUS (and I am a liberal)... Obama is only into Obama and getting re-elected. Beyond that he is just fluff, waiting for the next photo op. I find him as hypocritical as I find you... I just saw your recent post where you threw out all the charges of how Obama has been treated so poorly... Cry me a RIVER!



    http://www.local15tv.com/news/local/...Mhv0Afrnw.cspx

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...ge-flight-risk

    http://webbond.seminolesheriff.org/V...gulations.aspx

    http://webbond.seminolesheriff.org/d...egulations.pdf
    Last edited by minicooper; 5.5.12 at 2:12 PM.
    MC

  2. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    912

    Re: Liar, Liar! Pants on fire!

    From Jolau above: "Lies. Bail of this nature is usually set at levels that are either prohibitively expensive and require great sacrifices or end up in serious debt to in order to come up with that kind of money. Bail is usually set in such a way that they expect you to be NOT able to pay such money.
    Even the cost of clearing a speeding ticket can be quite expensive.

    I seriously doubt that you will be expressing faith in the justice system if this one of YOUR children was murdered in this fashion.
    The fact that someone like Lindsay Lohan can get rehab and the regular person gets prison for drug posession/use tells me the justice system doesn't work the same for all people. The innocent are convicted and EXECUTED in this country mostly because they couldn't afford a good enough attorney while OJ Simpson gets away with murder when EVERYONE knows he's guilty as sin.
    We are NOT equals in the eyes of the law. The justice system seems to be "separate but equal" when it comes to what penalties the rich and famous get vs the rest of us poor nobodies. And as with all other things, "separate but equal" DOES NOT WORK.

    The fact that he's back "in hiding" implies he is a flight risk. It is possible to break a GPS monitor, you know. And if he does, we'll never see him again. "
    Also -- This argument makes no sense... Are you actually implying that George Zimmerman is getting preferential treatment like celebrities... e.g. Lindsay Lohan? Zimmerman is not a celebrity.. he is one of the most hated men in the US at this time (and... in my opinion... a lot of this has to do with the media's misrepresentation of him, although I will gladly change my view if the actual discovery evidence proves otherwise). You, however, have made up your mind and have blinders on to any evidence that may surface and may prove Zimmerman not guilty (beyond a reasonable doubt). So stick fingers in ears and scream lalalalalalalala when needed to protect your preconcieved opinions jolau. I still would like to know about your expertise and how bail is set in Florida for 2nd degree murder charges. Frankly, it was up to the judge and he determined the bond that was set.. frankly, he did not seem to think the prosecution proved their case about Zimmerman being guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in order to deny bail ... in fact ... the prosecution embarassed themselves at the bond hearing. They may very well prove their case at a later date... but thus far they have not.

    One other thing... The defense has yet to get all the discovery info. The attorney O'Mara, stated I think just yesterday that he has not seen all the statements taken from Zimmerman the night he was brought in for questioning. I realize the defense wants the discovery to be kept from the public until all names and addresses of witnesses can be blocked from the public record... but what are they waiting for? There should have been ample time to comply with this by now.

    From jolau above: "Another lie. This may have been true ten years ago, but not today.
    Anyone with an Ipad or a decent cellphone and a good Wifi/3G connection can access the internet. I use my Ipad to monitor my work site because it includes my work schedule and work area. Not to mention Facebook and this site.
    Welcome to the 21st Century."
    How demeaning of you to suggest we all do not know this... but what is new. This still proves NOT whether Zimmerman knew how much was in the account while he was incarcerated, nor does it prove whether the account had reached this level by the time of the bond hearing, or whether any members of his family knew about it.. or his attorney for that matter. But I know in your all-knowing mind that you believe you have these answers and there is no need to look into it further.

    From jolau above: "I could happen to pass by any OCCUPY protest and if and when the police start cracking down on them at the same time, I potentially could be arrested and the media "misrepresenting" the truth. My entire family could think I'm some sort of hippie and NOONE will come to my rescue.
    As a matter of fact, I actually KNOW of someone that happened to.

    I'm pretty certain the NRA has deeper pockets than you or I, and knows of lawyers better than you or I can afford. NRA memberships aren't free you know. Where do you think they got that kind of money?

    And if you want to ask someone about media distortion, go ask President Obama. If you are going to donate to George Zimmerman because you think he's a victim of media distortion, you should donate to Barack Obama as well."
    Everything you stated above has absolutely NOTHING to do with this topic.. non-sequiturs all around... Hmmm... Media has distorted the details surrounding Zimmerman's case... well... Obama was treated unfairly... (rolling eyes). No POTUS has ever been treated with kid gloves as Obama has.. Where exactly did you study history? On Venus perhaps?

    From jolau above: " "Don't these people have jobs?" As in "Don't these people have better things to do than to go to Sanford FL to patrol some neighborhood?" This includes having a paying job to spend somewhere between four to eight hours a day at. Therefore it isn't hypocracy on my part. If these people are doing this and live outside of any reasonable commute distance from Sanford FL, what does that tell you?

    I'm willing to move where the job(s) take me because that is where my income comes from. But to go out of my way to patrol someone else's neighborhood FOR FREE?
    Hell, I can't even fly to NYC for a day without my mother talking me out of it.
    (Mind you I work for an airline and have the flying benefits to do so)"
    There are fringe groups all around representing the whackos of society... You are railing about Neo-Nazis (yes, despicable), yet claim the bounty placed on Zimmerman by the Black Panthers is just something to be ignored... some 70s group that means nothing today... then you go off on another non sequitur tangent about haw you are more concerned about the Chinese Mafia which is completely unrelated here. Somehow, you, in your jolau mind, determine that Zimmerman is a flight risk as he is in hiding (with the authorities knowing where he is)... and completely ignore that he may fear for his life due to death threats... because the Black Panthers and others threatening him... are just not worthy of your concern... some 70s group... no one pays any attention to them... Thanks jolau for setting everyone straight on this issue (obvious snark).

    And... If you want to fly to NY with your benefits, do it... Aren't you an adult that supports yourself with your airline job? I once worked for Alaska Airlines and I took full advantage... and my mother was happy for me. Again.. what does your not flying to NY have to do with this other than accusing others of not having jobs... how many tangent lines are there in your world?

    From jolau above: "The only people in this matter here that are intentionally going out of their way to cause trouble (Including George Zimmerman himself) ARE the Neo-Nazis."
    What??? I will state again... What??? Again -- In your opinion only...

    From jolau above: "More than $1, but not the $150,000+ within the few days between the time the website was established and the time he posted bail.

    PS: I'm also sure the governing bodies of Florida appreciate your "donation" too. I'm pretty sure it's going towards something noble, like catching the few welfare recipients that are dumb enough to take a drug test and fail."
    Oh whatever... Again - You do not know what you are referring to. There was more than a few days between the time Zimmerman started the website and his bond hearing... and the date that the funds were presented to the court. Zimmerman's website to his paypal account was started on April 9th... George Zimmerman was arrested on April 11th (turned himself in)... and at that time had no access to cell phones or other wireless per the link I posted earlier re: inmate rights, etc. at the jail where he was housed in Seminole County. Zimmerman's bond hearing was on Friday, April 20th... Therefore he was incarcerated for 10 days without wireless access (himself)... time when he or his family may not have had access to the paypal account and the funds being donated. Zimmerman was released from jail early morning on April 23rd (assuming... yes an assumption... that he still had no wireless access until this time). Two days after Zimmerman was released, Zimmerman's attorney found out about the paypal funds when they were trying to close all of his social network sites. Then it was reported to the judge, who is awaiting more specifics before he rules about the bond (revoke it or change it or none of the above)... jolau, your assumption is that all along Zimmerman knew about the funds... maybe he did or maybe he did not. I am certain that records can be provided as to when the funds started rolling in. I know that I did not donate until AFTER the bond hearing. But in your usual rush to judgment, you have determined already that Zimmerman and his family perjured themselves while under oath.

    From jolau above: "I don't care if they used a picture of Trayvon Martin with his pants around his knees, gold teeth, and him using a clock for a necklace flashing gang symbols and George Zimmerman in tie-dye surrounded by unicorns and kittens. The fact remains, George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin and YOU still make the assumption that Trayvon was there to cause trouble and George Zimmerman is some helpless fawn being chased by Black Panthers.

    The nicest looking guy can be a pediophile, the richest looking man could still steal.
    I don't make assumptions based on appearances alone."
    So glad you do not care about this... (ABSOLUTE SNARK). Do you also not care about the 911 tapes that were purposefully edited to make Zimmerman out to be a racist? I am certain that you do not care at all than many rushed to judgment based upon the media bias that was reported... and several have now lost their jobs as a result. Nonetheless... so many still believe what they heard on these edited tapes. I think you are one of them... but I would not want to rush to judgment (SNARK again).
    Last edited by minicooper; 5.5.12 at 3:42 PM.
    MC

  3. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Posts
    14,676

    Post Re: Liar, Liar! Pants on fire!

    Mini, what scares me the most about this string of posts you are referring to, is how easily people are swayed by the media and public opinion.
    It's like having an original thought about such things is no longer something that people do.
    They just jump on the media bandwagon and wail UNFAIR, without ever stopping to actually think about the facts, or the way our legal system works.
    And then they jump on internet message boards and make claims that are totally unsubstantiated.
    Like "the bond set for Zimmerman was unfair".
    Anyone can feel free to make that claim.
    But back it up with some facts.
    That is what doesn't happen here.
    Along with totally false statements like:

    "The fact remains, George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin and YOU still make the assumption that Trayvon was there to cause trouble and George Zimmerman is some helpless fawn being chased by Black Panthers."

    I have never once, in this discussion claimed that a) Martin was there to cause trouble or b) that Zimmerman is some helpless fawn being chased by Black Panthers.

    And yet the delusional tirade continues, because some people are incapable of debating a point by supporting it with facts.

  4. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    912

    Post Re: Liar, Liar! Pants on fire!

    Quote Originally Posted by mtj View Post
    Mini, what scares me the most about this string of posts you are referring to, is how easily people are swayed by the media and public opinion.
    It's like having an original thought about such things is no longer something that people do.
    They just jump on the media bandwagon and wail UNFAIR, without ever stopping to actually think about the facts, or the way our legal system works.
    And then they jump on internet message boards and make claims that are totally unsubstantiated.
    Like "the bond set for Zimmerman was unfair".
    Anyone can feel free to make that claim.
    But back it up with some facts.
    That is what doesn't happen here.
    Along with totally false statements like:

    "The fact remains, George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin and YOU still make the assumption that Trayvon was there to cause trouble and George Zimmerman is some helpless fawn being chased by Black Panthers."

    I have never once, in this discussion claimed that a) Martin was there to cause trouble or b) that Zimmerman is some helpless fawn being chased by Black Panthers.

    And yet the delusional tirade continues, because some people are incapable of debating a point by supporting it with facts.
    I absolutely agree. As I stated, I have no idea if Zimmerman is guilty or innocent. It was absolutely a horrific tragedy that a young man lost his life, and I hope we can work towards such incidents not happening again (at least make progress), but with that said, the evidence still needs to be presented in a court of law ... and Zimmerman is either convicted, or found not guilty. From that point we can determine what needs to change.

    I am just really tired of the media pressing a message that may or may not be true, and the gullible sheep following along with their message... almost like Orwell's 1984 in a way...incessant public mind control.
    MC

  5. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Posts
    14,676

    Post Re: Liar, Liar! Pants on fire!

    Quote Originally Posted by minicooper View Post
    I am just really tired of the media pressing a message that may or may not be true, and the gullible sheep following along with their message... almost like Orwell's 1984 in a way...incessant public mind control.
    What's really disturbing is when the media admits it conveyed biased material and the sheeple just keep believing the original story when there are proven holes all through it.
    Which IS what JK started this thread about in the first place.

  6. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    912

    Re: Liar, Liar! Pants on fire!

    I agree mtj...

    Here are some things that came straight from Al Sharpton's mouth and MSNBC and other networks kept repeating after they were proven to be false:

    1. George Zimmerman did not live in the gated community... so he had no right to be there, but Trayvon Martin did, therefore Trayvon Martin was the only one that could claim stand your ground. This is blatantly false. Zimmerman did live there with his wife and Trayvon was visiting, so they both had rights to be in the gated community.

    2. The police did not notify Trayvon's father of Trayvon's death for 3 days. This is blatantly false. Trayvon's father returned home the night he was killed to find Trayvon missing, but assumed he had gone to a movie so went to sleep. The next morning, when Trayvon was still not home, he called the police and the police immediately came to his townhouse with a chaplain to convey the news of Trayvon's death. Trayvon did not have any ID, but they did have his cell phone... which might have enabled the police to notify the parents the night before. Nonetheless, this did not happen, but Al Sharpton's version was a flat out lie. Then Trayvon's body remained at the morgue for three days while the autopsy was completed... then the body was transferred to the funeral home near Miami.

    3. Zimmerman was never brought in for questioning that night, never had his clothes taken, never had his gun taken, and was never drug tested. Also blatantly false. The police Dept has stated that they did take these items and there is the video surveillance tape showing Martin being brought in for questioning.

    4. The first States Attorney assigned to the case had no plans to arrest Zimmerman, ever. This is unclear as there was a grand jury set to be convened and decide whether or not Zimmerman would be arrested.

    5. Recently I have read many people state that no one ever stated that Zimmerman shot Martin in Cold Blood... Well, here is a link where Crump, Martin family attorney, states exactly this (and refers to Martin as a little minority child):http://videos.mediaite.com/video/Al-...rviews-Trayvon

    6. Al Sharpton now, since the arrest, continues to claim that he has never advocated violence... yet here is a video of one of his rallies where the crowd and Sharpton are yelling "No Justice, No Peace"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56t44LycY5Y

    7. Here is a link to Sharpton on Morning Joe... and what was stated that morning about things that are untrue or have been unproven... yet still reported as factual:
    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/al-sharpt...e-was-nothing/

    My comments:




        • Police let Zimmerman leave with the gun – not true

      • Joe S .. The police don’t arrest this murderer for anything… it is not the law… it is the police dept. at fault
      • Claims by Harold Ford that Zimmerman was never detained (for questioning)…. Not true
      • Joe S… boy (showing 12 yr old pics)… a young man with iced tea and skittles was attacked (not proven… the attack)
      • Al Sharpton – states as proof that the 911 tapes prove that Zimmerman was not defending himself, that Zimmerman was pursued (not proven at this time)
      • Mika – How is someone standing their ground when someone (Martin) was screaming for help (unproven at this time)
      • Sharpton – The only one who could have been using Stand Their Ground was Trayvon.. (unproven at this time)
      • Sharpton – Left Trayvon’s body in the morgue for three days…. They (police) never even took his cell phone to find out who his last calls were to ID Trayvon. The family did not know for three days…
      • Scarborough… Police knew Martin was chased, hunted down, screaming for help, and shot to death…The police have not arrested him and they know very clearly Zimmerman was not standing his ground.
      • Scarborough… The police have betrayed the public trust, they have acted shamefully
      • Sharpton confirms to (Harold Ford, Jr.) that for three days the father did not know his son was in the morgue (completely untrue)
      • Scarborough – Sounds like they were trying to cover some tracks..
      • They drug tested the body…. They did not drug test the shooter (Rev Al)….

    MC

  7. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 1997
    Posts
    3,033

    Post Re: Liar, Liar! Pants on fire!

    I'm not even sure why you even respond to begin with. I thought you two were just going to let the "naive child" ramble on by himself.

    PS: Do YOU have that kind of money lying around in case you or one of your loved ones happen to be arrested?

    I think not.

  8. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    912

    Re: Liar, Liar! Pants on fire!

    Jolau -- Once again you have nothing to bring to the discussion here.. You cannot discount anything we have been stating in the posts above... with citations... admitting where things are unknown, but proving that you and your assumptions thus far are unfounded. That is why you come across as naive when you post.

    Do I have that kind of money? With the bond set at $150,000 bail, and that 10% needed to be posted for Zimmerman's release out on bail... yes, I do. If Zimmerman does not show up for trials or does not cooperate in other ways, the full amount will need to be forfeited. His parents are willing to mortgage their house for this. However, as many believe that Zimmerman is being treated unfairly, they have donated, and as such, there will likely be the funds for the rest of the bail if needed, and to pay his legal team.

    Here's another thought for you, as you seem to have all the answers. Do you think that if the Al Sharptons of the world had not brought this case to national attention that there would have been any way for Zimmerman to raise these funds online? Very unlikely... However, you cannot prove that Zimmerman would not have been arrested anyway as there was a Grand Jury set to convene to examine the facts of the case and determine if an arrest was warranted. I bet you are under the assumption that there was no chance Zimmerman would have been arrested without the media attention.

    As you are so disgusted that Zimmerman was able to raise the funds... perhaps you need to examine how your support of Sharpton, etc., may have just backfired and resulted in something you despise ... online collection of funds for George Zimmerman.
    Last edited by minicooper; 5.6.12 at 4:20 PM.
    MC

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •