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Thread: Obama...One Term?

  1. #33
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    Re: Obama...One Term?

    so you attribute our success to baby killing and gay rights? baby killing and gay rights made us # 1?...
    I don't. But I acknowledge that these were happening during the course of American history. The only thing that has changed is the legal status of gays and abortion. America was great before, and can be great after.

    Also miscarriages, stillbirths and other forms of infant mortality were present throughout American history, mostly due to lack of medical care as Americans moved to the western frontiers.
    Now in some places you can't even have a natural miscarriage without the Anti-Abortion crowd assuming foul play. (Something I predicted will happen)
    Has anyone you know had a miscarriage?
    I know people that have had miscarriages, and it's probably the worst thing they experienced in thier lives. Not only that but every pregnancy they have afterwards are going to be extremely delicate.
    Add that experience and some nosy churchy person coming around accusing them that thier miscarriage was intentional and claiming they should be prosecuted?

    corporate CEO'S are those who make the decisions as to whether or not to expand or not.. they are the ones who look at the numbers, guage the forcasts of the economy and how the govt will react and what possible government punishments for success will hit them and their plans go as hoped for... yes..that is called the trenches my socialist friend.. it is the cornerstone to freedom and capitalism..
    Same tired excuse.
    In other words, sit around and do nothing hoping the "right" conditions come along while everything else decays around you. Does that sound familiar?
    What if this was a poor person on welfare or something doing that? You'd be screaming "socialist".

    You may not realize this, but it's the employees that make or break a company, not the CEO.
    I believe that teamwork makes or breaks a company, from the highest CEO to the new-hires.
    The employees are the ones that have to sell and/or make the product, the employees are the ones that know whether or not the CEOs decisions work or not.
    Management needs to be supportive in order to have employees that believe that the company they work for can be successful, employees need to ensure management knows what is working for them and what is not. That is why I'm more likely to side with labor than with the execs.

    Unions may or may not be necessary depending on the situation. A work force with a more enlightened and supportive managment might not need a union, while those with a less enlightened management may need one.

    I've been in both union environments and non-union environments, and sometimes the non-union environment was preferrable. I wasn't paid much at the airline I worked for and they were non union. But I had good benefits, people were friendly, and management was supportive (for the most part).
    After I left that company, things changed the company was forced to downsize, half my coworkers were laid off and only two of the old management is still there, and they essentially have to rebuild from scratch.
    I hear horror story after horror story about what the new management are doing, and people (some of them supervisors) are leaving.
    What does that tell you?

    Also, if low taxes = greatness, then how come tax rates where higher during the 1950's and 1960's?
    A time when you claim our country was at it's "greatest"?
    Also a time when union membership was higher?
    http://www.stanford.edu/class/polisc...20Brackets.pdf
    What were corporations doing at the time?

    I see the "capitalists" doing more kicking than Obama, and Obama has been more than accomodating.
    But that is what fascists do. Kick the old leadership to the ground and take over claiming they can do better. Then they start going after the hated people of the day.

    "When Hitler attacked the Jews [/COLOR]
    I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned.
    And when Hitler attacked the Catholics,
    I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned.
    And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists,
    I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned.
    Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church --
    and there was nobody left to be concerned."
    -Martin Neimoller

  2. #34
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  3. #35
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    Post Re: Obama...One Term?

    you may be able to come up with a few stories, true or untrue, but to claim "Churchy" people howling at people having miscarriages is a stretch... ridiculous to say the least... you are not convincing when you put a freakish incident on the table and try to use it for policy decisions... "never let a disaster go to waste" come to mind?

    corps rarely expand for the common good...they expand for profit and all benefit when the profits come rolling in... in other words, when they see an opportunity, they expand for profit and the common good is acheieved for all..

    this administration sets up road blocks for those opportunities... energy and health policy just for starters... because they want control..they don't care about the well being of the common man... they want control of the common man.. that's how the statist grows it's power..

    CEO's for the most part, are special people with above average intelligence and their insight can make or break a corporation.. true, a company's greatest assett is it's employees.. but CEO'S are the one's making the big decisions and their success stories fill the history books of American Exceptionalism...

    you misguided hatred for the wealthy is straight from the karl marx playbook... leads to death and despair as history has shown us...

    the average worker does not have a total understanding of supply and demand when it comes to prices and wages...I'm no economist either and neither or you... but I do see where people demand things that the free market is not providing and when the govt steps in to "give" the people what they want, things get totally jacked up... the govt's obligation to the common people is to make sure businesses are not colluding with one another which stifles true market competition.. it's called anti-trust law.. but some would like to think that as long as we have strong unions dominating the work force, we can all go back to people barely passing high school and doing a job a trained monkey could do for 70K... then retire at age 58 on a pension he/she was never required to contribute to.. "tons of money and free stuff for all!!" is the mantra of the ignorant statists they yell in order to put fake pipe dreams into the heads of the ignorant masses... it fails always and leads to destruciton\

    I never said our country was at it's greatest during the 50 and 60's... there are other factors involved than taxes... the global economy had not kicked in yet and we as a nation were buying products manufactured here and the world was buying lot from us as well. . those things have changed...

    the vast majority of our taxes are collected from those you despise (i.e. the wealthy)... Reagan dropped the top rate from 70 to 28% and revenue to the IRS doubled by the time he left office... it was the greatest peace time economic expansion the world had ever seen... when those tax rates were first inacted, the dems all screamed we were going to hell in a hand basket... were you one of them?

    you are blind if you think obama has been accomodating to capitialism... if so, he has you fooled.. he may pick 2 or 3 (i.e. General Electric)..give them some corporate welfare and let some out of his draconian health care laws for some campaign money (i.e. unions and other crony companies that line the left winged coffers with $$$...)

    but in the end, he hates capitialism and freedom... he is for the left winged, ignorant mob ruling the society.. tearing down the great things we accomplished so the masses can have a party while he chearleads it...

  4. #36
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    Re: Obama...One Term?

    you may be able to come up with a few stories, true or untrue, but to claim "Churchy" people howling at people having miscarriages is a stretch... ridiculous to say the least... you are not convincing when you put a freakish incident on the table and try to use it for policy decisions... "never let a disaster go to waste" come to mind?
    Oh? Then why are Georgia and Utah contemplating such laws?
    http://beta.news.yahoo.com/blogs/loo...82612-215.html
    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/utah-ab...ory?id=9955517

    corps rarely expand for the common good...they expand for profit and all benefit when the profits come rolling in... in other words, when they see an opportunity, they expand for profit and the common good is acheieved for all..
    Then our country is doomed to failure. Why is it that corporations are set to different standards than others?
    Replace "corporation" with "unemployed person", and what do you get? Why are corporations allowed to sit and wait, but Welfare Moms need to get up and go find work?

    CEO's for the most part, are special people with above average intelligence and their insight can make or break a corporation.. true, a company's greatest assett is it's employees.. but CEO'S are the one's making the big decisions and their success stories fill the history books of American Exceptionalism...
    I call this the superhero mentality.
    You expect these people to swoop in and save the day. I don't believe Superman will come to save the day any more than a bunch of CEOs will suddenly save a company (let alone an entire country)
    CEOs and the companies they work for came from somewhere. But at some point they forget where they came from and lose all empathy for the people that work for them.
    CEOs are NOTHING without thier employees.
    That is why I've been saying the support needs to flow back and forth. CEOs need to be supportive in order for the rest to be supportive in return.

    the govt's obligation to the common people is to make sure businesses are not colluding with one another which stifles true market competition.. it's called anti-trust law..
    If that's true then, it's not doing a very good job at that. Look around you, merger after merger. Airlines, telecommunications, and banks just to name a few.
    Five restaurant chains with the same parent company. You may have a choice between fried chicken and tacos, but it still goes to the same parent company.
    The duopoly between Microsoft and Apple.
    All you have to do see how our government is making sure businesses aren't from colluding with each other is go to your local airport.
    What do you see?
    Planes that say "United Airlines" with Continental logos.
    Delta Airbuses and 747s that once belonged to Northwest.
    (Note: Delta didn't have any before they merged)
    Sometimes US Airways will have planes that have the old America West paint job, or the PSA smile.
    Last time I was on American Airlines, one of the planes I was on still had the old TWA seats and the Flight Attendant had to apologize for why the seats were "different". (Yeah that was like 5 years ago, but still)
    What were once the Big 7 are now the Big 3 or 4.

    we can all go back to people barely passing high school and doing a job a trained monkey could do
    That's what you're going to end up with anyway if this keeps up. College is getting more and more expensive, and education keeps getting watered down.

    Also, look at Boeing's new plant in North Carolina. You know, the one they screwed thier union to get?
    They're paying $14hr.
    A mechanic for even the regional airlines would get $16. (I recently interviewed for one, and this job was is in Virginia)
    Not to mention, this workforce is essentially starting from scratch. You're not going to have an experienced work force let alone more-senior employees to teach the new guys, and the safety and construction standards that result on these planes worries me.
    I know full well what the FAA and NTSB does during a crash and how the public reacts when planes go down and the cause is discovered. I hope for your sake these planes don't go down because of Boeing's decision to screw its experienced unionized workers.

    I never said our country was at it's greatest during the 50 and 60's...
    If that wasn't it then when was our nation great?

    the vast majority of our taxes are collected from those you despise (i.e. the wealthy)... Reagan dropped the top rate from 70 to 28% and revenue to the IRS doubled by the time he left office... it was the greatest peace time economic expansion the world had ever seen... when those tax rates were first inacted, the dems all screamed we were going to hell in a hand basket... were you one of them?
    At the same time, women started working and Reagan poured much of our nation's funds into the military research and development to beat the Soviets during the Cold War. Stealth planes, Star Wars, etc. Here, the government created jobs and strengthened the middle class, which is something you detest.
    I wasn't old enough to scream about anything during Reagan, asides from maybe my grandfather pouring soup into my rice and other things that normal kids scream about. I was only 2 - 10 when Reagan was in office.

  5. #37
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    Post Re: Obama...One Term?

    again, this is a stretch..regardless of how off the wall the legislation proposal is... it will never fly and you know that nobody is going to jail for a miscarriage... utter nonsense... coming up with this stuff while abortions are being carried out assembly line style is ridiculous...

    then our country would have already failed because that's why corps have always expanded...for their own profit... so that makes your assertion wrong... indviduals, small businesses and corps have always had their freedom to pursue their individual happiness and freedom...it is what set us apart from the rest of the world and made us # 1..
    corps are not living off the public troff.. welfare receips are... corps pay taxes and cut payroll checks... people on welfare do not... stupid analogy.. producers vs parasites..

    there are docuemented success stories of CEO throughout our history that expanded their businesses and produced tons of money for the treasury and paychecks for employees.. they did this through risk taking and decision making.. CEO's have to see a profit on the horizon before expansion takes place... it made us # 1... NEVER have they done it for the common good...it's always been about profits for the company... you MUST have that before poor people can get better jobs from the employer...

    I thought obama's union thugs kept boeing from going to SOUTH carolina?..no? it was totally unAmerican and against the freedom the constitution guarantees us all... it is just another job killer by the dumbass marxist in the white house..

    I think Boeing knows more about setting up a new shop than the dumbass marxist in charge or any union thug who only cares about union power...

    umm.. I don't think the federal treasury's receipts doubled due to government jobs.. reagan's policies enhanced capital investment which spurred us out of the crap our country was in... more opportunity came from his policies of lower taxes and less regulation.. it unleashed capital and people went to work... too bad he had dems in control of the HOR that pissed away the revenues...

    saying that revenue doubled to the IRS during Reagan due to govt jobs is the stupidist thing I've heard in a while...

  6. #38
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    Re: Obama...One Term?

    again, this is a stretch..regardless of how off the wall the legislation proposal is... it will never fly and you know that nobody is going to jail for a miscarriage... utter nonsense... coming up with this stuff while abortions are being carried out assembly line style is ridiculous...
    15 YEARS? For the Utah one?
    http://news.change.org/stories/under...life-in-prison
    And punishable by DEATH for the Georgia one?
    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/pro...oven-innocent/
    Just the thought of these laws even being proposed makes me wonder how extreme the Anti-Abortion crowd is willing to go.
    And as far as these "Assembly Line" abortions is concerned, who the hell is having sex with these women and getting them pregnant in the first place?
    Oh yeah, I forgot. "Normal" men.
    Fools.
    They are responsible for these assembly line abortions as well, if not more-so.
    They should be at Planned Parenthood on thier knees begging, weeping and pleading for the lives of thier unborn children, kissing the feet of the women they impregnante and the ground they walk on.

    corps are not living off the public troff.. welfare receips are... corps pay taxes and cut payroll checks... people on welfare do not... stupid analogy.. producers vs parasites..
    Ayn Rand strikes again. Meanwhile, I think Christ is starving.
    Also, two words: Oil Subsidies.
    Writeoffs for business expenses you say?
    Who put them on the books in the first place?

    there are docuemented success stories of CEO throughout our history that expanded their businesses and produced tons of money for the treasury and paychecks for employees.. they did this through risk taking and decision making..
    They still came from some humble beginning.
    Do you see them doing much risk taking now? They only take risks when things are easy. True risk-taking happens when things are hard.

    CEO's have to see a profit on the horizon before expansion takes place... it made us # 1... NEVER have they done it for the common good...it's always been about profits for the company... you MUST have that before poor people can get better jobs from the employer...
    How many companies are profiting but not hiring?
    Again, you claim they have super powers.
    They don't have super powers. They have staff that do much of the work for them. Meanwhile they just sit and wait while everything around them decays.

    I think Boeing knows more about setting up a new shop than the dumbass marxist in charge or any union thug who only cares about union power...
    I would also think Boeing would also know how to attract and retain a quality experienced work force knowing that the safety of the flying public at stake. I also think that is what Obama is concerned with as well.
    And at $14 an hour, I think the quality experienced work force will either keep looking and the ones they have now belong to the union getting shafted.
    Why is it that some regional airline's maintenance base in Virginia only two states away offers at least $2 more to work on little airplanes than high and mighty BOEING in South Carolina and its big jets?

  7. #39
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    Post Re: Obama...One Term?

    I'm not going to comment further on the abortion issue because you are so disturbed and wacked out I can't comprehend what you are saying...

    Oil is not subsidized...that is a left winged lie.. they write of business expenses.. just like an airline or any other business... who put them on the books in the first place?...are you insane?...what kind of dumbass question is that? are you so ignorant that you don't understand a business has to spend money in order to operate?

    you don't know the first thing about starting a corporation and neither do I.. neither you nor I have the right to tell them how to conduct their affairs... they paid hundreds of billions in taxes... how much did you pay? what gives you the right to dictate to them how they operate? what did you do for the country?... how many people received paychecks from you?... did you pay a billion in taxes? they have the right to take the risk any GDamned time they get good and GDamned ready.. not when someone like you who can only sit around and bitch about the producers tells them to... get it?...they have rights just like anyone else..

    the only thing you, obama and the unions are concerned with is union/ marxist power... you don't give a rat's ass about safety... only union statist power... if you agree as obama does, that the govt has the right to shut down your operation the way they did in south carolina, then you wipe your A$s with the constitution...

  8. #40
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    Re: Obama...One Term?

    I'm not going to comment further on the abortion issue because you are so disturbed and wacked out I can't comprehend what you are saying...
    And what I think is disturbing is that you refuse to acknowledge that it is the irresponsibility of those men having sex with these women that results in the pregnancies that end in abortion to begin with.

    they paid hundreds of billions in taxes... how much did you pay? what gives you the right to dictate to them how they operate? what did you do for the country?... how many people received paychecks from you?... did you pay a billion in taxes?
    I might not be handing out paychecks or paying taxes, but the little contributions I make these paychecks and thier ability to pay thier taxes possible just through regular every day purchases.
    Today, I went to see Harry Potter. And from the mere act of making the decision of going to the movies, I bought a soda, some hotdogs and one of those ice cream thingies.
    Through these acts, I've given a small contribution to the following companies:
    Cinemark/Century Theaters
    Coca Cola
    Warner Brothers and the associated production companies that made the Harry Potter series (I've seen all 8 movies).
    Nestle (ice cream)
    The company that made the hotdogs the theater is selling.
    The Japanese place that I had lunch at after the movie.
    The price of the movie and the food I bought may seem insignificant to you, but it does help to keep these companies operating. It does help pay thier taxes, maintain thier stores theater and equipment, as well contribute to paychecks going to everyone involved in both the theater and making the movie from the guy at the hotdog/popcorn stand to JK Rowling, Daniel Radcliffe, and Emma Watson.

    You keep saying CEOs look for profit? Where does this profit exist? In those who demand those products from the company the CEOs work for.
    The Harry Potter series was made because people WANT to see Harry Potter movies.
    The companies that produce both the Harry Potter books and movies profit because there is demand for it.
    The books were written, published, and sold in great numbers due to growing demand. (Also I think the demand grew partially because of the Religious Right Wing associating Harry Potter with Satanism when the books first came out, which gave it added publicity)
    Then the movies were made because they saw profit in making Harry Potter movies based on book sales.
    Compare that to say, "Atlas Shrugged" or Sarah Palin's "The Undefeated", which I think were simply made and shoved onto the public, only for these movies to fade into obscurity.

    That is what you "supply side" capitalists don't get.
    You can cut taxes and write-off business expenses all you want, but without people demanding thier products, moving products off these shelves, going to watch movies and sporting events, travelling, etc. They are NEVER going to profit.
    The mere fact that I have the CHOICE to purchase or not purchace these products GIVES me the right to dictate to them how they operate! Because when I make that choice to NOT buy thier products, they may be one step closer to CEASING to OPERATE!
    You may assume what I do is "Socialism" but what I am doing is switching our focus from "Supply" to "Demand". You may not see it as such, but it is still capitalism. When you focus on "Demand" side economics, you also boost one's ABILITY to DEMAND and PURCHASE, and then companies PROFIT.

    they have the right to take the risk any GDamned time they get good and GDamned ready.. not when someone like you who can only sit around and bitch about the producers tells them to... get it?...they have rights just like anyone else..
    They are still lazy. Either they are not actively seeking demand or those who want it don't make the kind of income necessary to demand it.
    They may be "producers", but the things they produce will only collect dust on the shelves until someone actually comes around to take it off the shelf in order to buy it.

    the only thing you, obama and the unions are concerned with is union/ marxist power... you don't give a rat's ass about safety... only union statist power... if you agree as obama does, that the govt has the right to shut down your operation the way they did in south carolina, then you wipe your A$s with the constitution...
    I've studied Aviation History, and Aviation has been one of my greatest passions in my life. And as someone as passionate about the industry and its successes, I DO give a rat's ass about safety.
    I KNOW the public's reaction is like when they find out the pilot was either seen as "too young" or wasn't adequately trained or what other faults that happened that caused an airplane to crash.

    The regulations of the Federal Aviation Administration is written in BLOOD, and as far as the airlines is concerned, it is often because companies over and over again put profit over safety and they have to learn that lesson over and over and more regulations are made because of it.
    And you are damned right I agree the government has the right to shut down an operation where maintenance practices are shoddy, construction is faulty, training is insufficient, safety is sacrificed in the name of profit and people DIE because of it. The FAA has the right to shut them down.
    People's lives are at risk and you're willing to allow Boeing to cut corners which will probably mean some sort of horrific accident sometime in the future. And with Boeing starting from scratch like that, it's fortunate that it was shut down before one of these planes broke apart in the middle of an ocean.

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