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Thread: C-mon people!

  1. #25
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    Quote Originally Posted by big easy View Post

    democracy has its dowsides like everything..when the rule of law designed to protect individuals from the masses and put limits on central authority are eroded by runaway democracy, the whole system will collapse... as evidenced as what we are seeing not just here, but around the globe..


    .

    "Runaway democracy"? Really?? Wow Bigeasy... is that what the right call it nowadays?

    Funny... when George Bush was in office and taking away our rights as well as driving up HUGE deficits because he insisted on waging two wars and tax cuts for the wealthy on the national credit card- I didn't hear a peep out of you guys!

    I guess it's only "runaway democracy" whenever a Democrat is in power. Even one who ran on and got elected by a huge majority who wanted the very things he's tried to institute.

    And I just love how Republicans always try to equalize the power that unions have (what do they represent, only 7% of workers these days!) with the power that, oh, say the Koch brothers have! It's telling that Gov. Walker didn't have time to meet with union representatives ofr Democrats- but someone he thought was a Koch brother had IMMEDIATE access. That's just disgusting... and so telling. That this man is only carrying out the agenda that the Koch brothers have bought and paid for... an agenda that isn't in the best interests of the American people.

    I just love it how Republicans waged two wars and endless tax cuts for the wealthy (as well as a huge giveaway to the Pharmaceutical industry) all on the national credit care... which drove up those huge deficits we have now. Yet they want Americans to believe that it's all because of those big bad unions... who have less power now than they've ever had. It's really disgusting... and just a shame... how the right has turned American against American this way... and all to distract and deflect from the REAL theft that's going on.

  2. #26
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    Quote Originally Posted by big easy View Post
    the only thing that may remotely come to mind is the chrysler BK where the obama administration defied current BK law by giving everyting to the unions while the secured creditors who had actual cash invested in the company were told to go screw themselves by obama and company... it's sets an awful prescedent for future businesses who are looking cash investment... but what's new? what have these clowns done time and time again but spit on private sector business people?

    what would captialism and free markets say?... I dunno.. never heard them talk... sorry man.. just ain't following ya too good this evening...
    In other words, have them get investors to give them money so they can make the same mistakes over again, they get thier money from thier investors and can go back to business as usual. I think Obama here is saying we are not going to reward such behavior.

    Let me rephrase the question, with your understanding of capitalism and the free market, asides from allowing investors to throw money at them, what should have happened?

  3. #27
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    you should read some quotes from the federalist papers what the founding fathers said about the downsides to democracy... good stuff...intelligent...

    what rights did george bush take away? the patriot act? the one obama harped against when he was campaiging now signs off on extending it? aGAIN?

    bush's spending was bad but it's starting to look like a pimple on an elephant's ass compared to what the current regime is doing.. he gave tax cuts to everybody that pays them...it's just that the wealthy pay more of them... go figure..

    the swing voters who elected obama do not like what the dems are doing and how they are doing it.. obama and the dems have lost what they had due to the way they have governed... plain and simple... now they let their czars , the EPA, anything they can do to subvert the will of the people ...even when a federal judge rules their out of control actions un-constitutional...

    "runaway democracy" is a term used when the masses do whatever they want despite the rule of law...

    were not talking about power to the unions.. we are talking about balance and what is right and what is wrong.. that's all... the state's balance sheets don't lie and the thuggish unions and all their political pull put stuff out there that we can no longer to pay for... we can't be handing out "100% of your salary" pension like candy anymore...

    when you look at what the politicians are doing to defend the indefensible, that tells me all about the power of unions I really need to know...

    social security, medicare, medicaid, social spending.. all democratic plans that have left us unfunded mandates that equal $175,000 for every man woman and child in this country... 70% of our expenitures going towards left winged democratic programs and yet you want to lecture the repubs on the debt?

    you can't be serious can you?

    jolau..do you not understand what happened with the chrysler bk? are you saying we need to stop businesses from seeking investment capital?...the investors didn't screw up chrysler in case you don't know anything about the story... they invest.. chrylser management takes the money and rolls with it... what should have happened?.. how about people getting together and making a business transaction? it works pretty damned well most of the time ... it's called freedom.. there are risks but to deny people from doing business is insane.. your attacks on free markets and capitalism is straight out of karl marx's playbook...no?

    . you and reines are really on a roll..

  4. #28
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    Quote Originally Posted by big easy View Post
    jolau..do you not understand what happened with the chrysler bk? are you saying we need to stop businesses from seeking investment capital?...the investors didn't screw up chrysler in case you don't know anything about the story... they invest.. chrylser management takes the money and rolls with it... what should have happened?.. how about people getting together and making a business transaction? it works pretty damned well most of the time ... it's called freedom.. there are risks but to deny people from doing business is insane.. your attacks on free markets and capitalism is straight out of karl marx's playbook...no?
    I have no problem with any businesses seeking investment capital, but such investments comes responsibility, the ability to grow and change with the passage of time but I don't think Chrysler's managment would be willing to do such change.

    They need to realize that they screwed up and are going to be liable for thier screwups, and they need to change in order to survive.
    Chrysler can't just "take the money and roll with it", there is no guarantee that they won't just go back to business as usual until they're bankrupt again.

  5. #29
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    Quote Originally Posted by big easy View Post

    "runaway democracy" is a term used when the masses do whatever they want despite the rule of law...

    .
    You mean like how the Tea Partiers bring guns to town hall meetings to try to scare politicians? You mean how they rage and roar and disrupt any semblence of civilty or decorum? PLEASE! Give me a break! The only folks "doing whatever they want despite the rule of law" are rightwingers who are spoiled losers.

    And why is it that businesses are sitting on their assets and not hiring? They certainly have the money! And if they don't they can always get more at 0% interest rate from the Feds! Nice trick there... "borrow" money at 0% interest and turn around and charge consumers 18% or 24% or worse! And yet we're being constantly told that we need to sacrififice and give back and suffer!!!

    What more do they want? It's all a big sham.

  6. #30
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    the guy who brought his gun to a political gathering was over reaching but he was only doing it to display his support for the 2nd amendment... he never threatened anyone with it...

    but we do know about the union thuggery at political events for the last year and a half.. I'm sure your leftist network didn't show the fox news anchor get hit..(liberals who did see it probably laughed).I'm sure all those lamestreamers are hiding all the stuff going on in WI right now..

    tea parties are breaking the law? how so?

    who lost the last election? what party is skipping out to resorts instead of doing what they are supposed to be doing? because they lost their power and now they want to take their ball home and not play... no?..whose the spoiled losers?

    why don't you ask some of the business owners why they are not hiring? would you even believe them? do you think business owners in this country have been hiring people for the last 200 years just because they have the money? ever thought once these people may know a thing or two about running a business and before expansion takes place, careful planning goes into it? it's called forecasting... return on investment...etc...

    the 0% rates are what's being offered by the fed to the banks... businesses don't get 0% rates... I guess you think raising the fed rate would be the answer to economic recovery ...sheesh...

    yep..we've got dems who want to double electric bills for everyone.. pay more for our socialized medicine and all.. they are definitely asking too much from us...that we can all agree...

  7. #31
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    Quote Originally Posted by big easy View Post
    the guy who brought his gun to a political gathering was over reaching but he was only doing it to display his support for the 2nd amendment... he never threatened anyone with it...

    ever thought once these people may know a thing or two about running a business and before expansion takes place, careful planning goes into it? it's called forecasting... return on investment...etc..
    You might not be threatening anyone, but it's still intimidation.

    Strange he doesn't mention demand or finding ways to create demand. Finding ways to put at least alittle more money in the hands of say, the middle class.

    I also think you two should actually check thier income statements and check how much in taxes they pay. Don't just go by media blurbs. All you have to do is look for thier income statements in thier investor relations sections on thier websites.
    See how much money these companies are generating, how much they are spending in business expenses (IE: salaries and things like that), and yes, how much they spend in taxes.

    Perhaps you two can learn how to cooperate on something for a change, and actually base your opinions on what these income statements are saying rather than shouting at each other with stuff you found on your favorite media sites.

  8. #32
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    I do think demand is the key element here... because companies can't grow if no one is able to buy what they are selling. And people find it hard to go out and buy when they aren't sure whether or not they will lose their job next week. IMO it doesn't matter how many tax breaks you give to business- if there isn't any demand for their product... then how can they grow? It's just common sense.

    Bigeasy wants us to believe that if we only keep giving business exactly what they want, why, we'll all be drowning in good jobs and prosperity! Except that we've tried that for the past thirty, forty years... and we've all seen how well that worked out! If giving tax breaks (more and more and more of them) to the wealthy and to business was the answer to prosperity... then WHY did we just suffer through the worst economic downturn since the depression, WHY are good jobs being lost every day (these companies even brag about how many jobs they ship overseas!), WHY are we seeing no real wage growth for American workers, WHY are we seeing the biggest gap between weathy and poor since the 1920s?

    We TRIED it your way Bigeasy... over and over. It just doesn't work. Oh, it works wonderfully for the super wealthy. But for the rest of us- not so much. It's time to stop repeating the same tired old mistakes.

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