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Thread: C-mon people!

  1. #17
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    Quote Originally Posted by big easy View Post
    hopefully she can indeed report when she can as to what the tea party wants to give... I'd be interested to know...

    relying on the govt to make sure all citizen's needs are fulfilled is the biggest mistake socieities make... this abandonment of self reliance leads to the erosion of people.. basic things can be certainly agreed on but there needs to be limitations on a central authority putting it's tentacles into every nook and cranny from maine to sandiego...
    ..
    This is a phony straw man argument. Because our choices aren't between self-reliance and "relying on the govt to make sure all citizens needs are fulfilled." There is an awful lot of area between those two! There is certainly a way for govt. to ensure that people have the basic freedoms and equal opportunities in a society- and we managed to do that pretty well for years and years.

    Until our govt. was totally corrupted by big money.

    I am just stunned Bigeasy at how little you really think of our democracy... which becomes more and more evident in your comments.

    Yeah- we're in trouble. But it's not because of the folks on welfare... or the teachers... or the public union members. We're in TROUBLE because corporate greed and power bought out our govt. and sold "we the people" right down the river.

    I wish just once... the Tea Party folks would take off their blinders and see the real picture.

  2. #18
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    BTW... Michelle Bachman is the typical hypocritical Tea Party Republican- espousing all these mantras about being self-reliant and not taqking handouts from the govt., etc.- while she enjoys farm subsidy handouts- courtesy of the federal govt!

    The Tea Party bumpkins now find themselves indebted to corporate bucks that seek to take over Medicare and Medicaid, kill Social Security, do away with regulatory reforms on Wall Street banks, eliminate a minimum wage, destroy labor unions, abolish pensions of public employees, eliminate education systems, and give Bush tax cuts to the wealthy, etc.

    Who are they indebted to? Who are they working for? The rich and powerful, natch. They ARE Republicans, after all. Have you ever seen a Republican in Congress ever do anything that was beneficial to the regular people of this country?

    What amazes me is how they continue to get away with this nonsense... after years and years of failed rightwing policies that have only decimated the working classes in this country. It must be because poor people, for the most part... just don't vote. They don't. Which is why no politician in Congress ever talks about poverty in this country. There's just no "value" in it. Sigh...

  3. #19
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    You do realize that Big Easy believes that the rich aren't members of "the masses", let alone incapable of convincing other members of "the masses" to vote in thier favor, are incapable of greed, racism is dead, Americans will convert to Islam at the sight of an AlQaida suicide bomber, and sexuality can't be controlled by the government but abortions can.

    Oh and he supports communism. Who would have thunk it? He'll trash the "individual rights" of "the masses" so the rich and elite can have thier tax cuts, remain in power, and prevent the government from generating any income (and then have to use the national treasure to make ends meet). Why else would he support people like Mubarak?
    By the way, I don't think some guy named Hitler ever offered any sort of welfare state to the German "masses" that voted for him.

    You know, our government is so polarized these days. They talk at each other in the halls of government and bash each other at thier respective gatherings and in the media. The only way they get things done is to win majorities in the house and senate as well as the presidency and then push thier agenda through the halls of government.
    They never have any sort of heart-to heart talk with each other let alone give the other side any ounce of respect.
    Whatever happened to the days when our lawmakers debate the issues, negotiate how laws will turn out, pass laws both sides can be satisfied with, and then go out for beer afterwards?

  4. #20
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    why do you ignore my very quotes of "basic things can be certainly agreed on but there needs to be limitations on a central authority"?
    and you say I'm ignoring middle ground? the left's way now absorbs over 70% of our expenditures...it has us on a path of destruction and unsustaibablity.. the unfunded mandates of the left all in the name of utopia have come calling and there are no easy answers now...

    "big money", "corporate greed", "stealing from the poor while giving tax breaks to the rich" same old story by the left over the last 100 years...

    where would your beloved social programs be without "big money"? what about your beloved govt?... do they not deal in "big money"... what about unions and trial lawyers that you put up on such a high pedestal? do they no deal in "big money"?

    what is a shame is that private business owning citizens are COMPELLED to line the pockets of politicians.. don't you think they would rather keep their money instead of playing the survival game with it? why do you think politicians drafted the complex 2 million page tax code? do you not see why the politicians favor it that way?

    democracy has its dowsides like everything..when the rule of law designed to protect individuals from the masses and put limits on central authority are eroded by runaway democracy, the whole system will collapse... as evidenced as what we are seeing not just here, but around the globe..

    you are ignoring the balance sheets that are open to the public that clearly show the greed of the public sector unions and the burden they are placing on state budgets... much of the porkulas spending by the dems have gone towards shoring up these excessive packages that have been leveraged by the unions whose payments to politicians from the worker's paychecks that come from the actual tax payers.. how groovy is that?

    jessie helms would personally confide to people when he wasn't on the podium that farm subsidies were not constitutional.. yet he would also acknowledge that if he went against them, he would not be elected.. farm subsidies are also a product of runaway democracy while ignoring the rule of law...

    promoting economic growth produces jobs and that is what the repubs concentrate on as opposed to how we are going to slice it up and hand it out like the dems do...

    who are the dems indebted to?... govt unions, trial laywers, flat earth, no growth warmers, oh, and let's not forget General Electric...

    repubs are indebted to those who actually create and produce and pay the bills and produce the jobs...

    jolau..must you twist my words to make a point? you and I both know that the wealthy are also part of the general population...sheesh dude..

    but you think that whenever someone from the poor or middle class votes republican, it's just because the rich have lied to them... what utter BS... have your ever thought once that a hard working middle class guy doesn't think he or she has the right to someone else's time and money? is a poor or middle class person not supposed to understand the founding father's intentions on limited govt, individual liberty and self reliance? do you find it strange that poor or middle class parents may be smart enough to know that while a new credit card may be nice for a while but it jeopordizes their financial future? that maybe they would be willing to make some sacrifices for the country's future?

    supports communism? me? the foundation of communism is the abolition of individual rights.. i.e. personal property and wealth... the left are the ones who think they know better than the individual on what to do with the individual's wealth than the individual who created it... "spread the wealth" as obama told joe the plumber.. that my friend is the foundation of communism.. the lie told to the masses that if we just take it all and evenly distribute it, then there will more for all..

    no way bro... you are the one that smokes the collective opiate, not I...

    "prevent the govt from generating any income"... you kidding me? how do you explain revenue to the fed govt doubling under reagan? how do you explain record revenues under bush before the crash?

    it's called wealth creation that happens when the conditions and demands are in place and the govt does not impede this growth with draconian, useless regulation and excessive taxes..

    you leftists don't understand that 28% of a billion is a hell of a lot better than 45% of a million...get it?... simple math...

    yall's problem is that the bottom line doesn't matter as long as the rules and regulations are what you like to define as "fair"... just like when obama was told that NEVER in the history of raising taxes on capital gains has that % increase EVER netted an increase in dollars collected...his response? "I realize that but we must pursue fairness"...

    what kind of logic is that? is that how yall feel?... as long as some evil rich guy is getting kicked in the balls, that justifies and makes everything ok? to hell with private sector growth, to hell with revenues to the treasury, let's just sock it to them and that'll make us "feel better"...

    did I say I support mubarak? the only thing I remember saying was that this uprising may not be as sexy as what the left winged media and the obama admin is trying to lead us to believe... they act as if the final outcome will be good for us, them and the rest of the world while cooler and more realistic heads are saying "not so fast"... and I do remember saying that he was thuggish and did a poor job...of course that is something we can all agree on...

    Hitler was a socialist... are you not familiar with his govt work programs he started before the war? but he also hated communism... it's a complex part of history but Hitler did make govt promises to the masses pertaining to jobs so your point there on him is off base.. like so many of your other "points"

    getting along and having a beer after work hasn't happened since regan and tip o'neil.. too bad the dems lied big time on 2 different occassions to reagan though... they lied when they promised to curtail spending and they lied when they said they would protect our borders if he would just grant amnesty to the 2 million illegals...

    but that's always been the way of the left..when they are not lying to the masses about unrealistic utopian dreams, they lie to the repubs...

    let's hope this time , like roger daltry so eloquently put it, "we won't get fooled aGAIN".. .

  5. #21
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    jolau..must you twist my words to make a point? you and I both know that the wealthy are also part of the general population...sheesh dude..
    You also said this
    the rich are a very low percentage therefore un-checked democracies with the rule of law abondoning individual rights is always going to work against the wealthy... it's too easy of a sell to those who are not rich... always has been and has allways resulted in bad consequences...
    Which is it? Can the rich use thier own influences on the lower classes to bend said unchecked democracies to work in thier favor or not?

    By the way, what do you think McCain/Palin would have done if the various bankruptcies happened last year?
    What would the Free Market or Capitalism say?

    I love this quote...
    china will get stronger because they are smart enough to not let the dumb masses vote.. .
    Hitler was a socialist... are you not familiar with his govt work programs he started before the war? but he also hated communism... it's a complex part of history but Hitler did make govt promises to the masses pertaining to jobs so your point there on him is off base.. like so many of your other "points"
    How soon you forget, Hitler at this time was beginning a campaign of world domination. When you say "government work programs" I say "building his war machine". He needed laborers in factories, scientists in labs, and soldiers in the military in order to prepare for what we will now call World War 2. Obviously he would have offered jobs because he needed the German people to do the work necessary to wage war.

  6. #22
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    I don't know exactly what you are talking about.. use their influences to bend democracy in their favor? all I'm talking about is that they are in the minority and that makes it tougher on them if everybody's out to "get them" so to speak... give me a more specific example if you can cuz I ain't followin' you on this...

    what would mccain and paling do about the recent bankruptcies? what would capitalism and the free market have to say about it?.. you may be losing me again here... the only thing that may remotely come to mind is the chrysler BK where the obama administration defied current BK law by giving everyting to the unions while the secured creditors who had actual cash invested in the company were told to go screw themselves by obama and company... it's sets an awful prescedent for future businesses who are looking cash investment... but what's new? what have these clowns done time and time again but spit on private sector business people?

    what would captialism and free markets say?... I dunno.. never heard them talk... sorry man.. just ain't following ya too good this evening...

    you do know hitler's govt programs built the german autobahn don't you? (and you realize it wasn't just one highway) are you not familiar with all the other public works programs he was implementing in the late 30's? ...more than just war toys..

  7. #23
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    Quote Originally Posted by big easy View Post
    you do know hitler's govt programs built the german autobahn don't you? (and you realize it wasn't just one highway) are you not familiar with all the other public works programs he was implementing in the late 30's? ...more than just war toys..
    Building a complex road system such as the Autobahn can be considered part of Hitler's war preparation as it would provide easier movement of military personell and equipment within Germany.
    Alot of public works can have some military function if you really think about it.

  8. #24
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    Post Re: C-mon people!

    Quote Originally Posted by jolau View Post

    You know, our government is so polarized these days. They talk at each other in the halls of government and bash each other at thier respective gatherings and in the media. The only way they get things done is to win majorities in the house and senate as well as the presidency and then push thier agenda through the halls of government.
    They never have any sort of heart-to heart talk with each other let alone give the other side any ounce of respect.
    Whatever happened to the days when our lawmakers debate the issues, negotiate how laws will turn out, pass laws both sides can be satisfied with, and then go out for beer afterwards?
    I'll tell you what happened to those days... they were DESTROYED by the rightwing network of hate- a la Rush Limbaugh and all his many clones. Think about it people... what's happened since those days od decades ago when Congress could differ on principle but still respect each other and socialize after hours? Why doesn't that happen today?

    It's pretty simple, IMO. You've got a whole network just devoted to demonizing and dividing those who have differing opinions. And they brainwash and drumbeat that message over and over and over- that Democrats aren't just people who believe something different about the best way to govern in society... but EVIL COMMUNISTS who HATE AMERICA and who thus must be ridiculed, demonized, slandered and DESTROYED.

    That's the difference today, IMO. We didn't have a whole network of hateful dividers preaching hate and division 24/7 across the airwaves back then. I listen to this crap so I know what I'm talking about... and it's the same stuff over and over- hate anything a Democratic president does, hate anything like unions that represent the last remaining hope of balance of power that working people have, hate anything (like the EPA) that might infringe upon the "right" of the wealthy and powerful to amass even more profit.

    It's nothing but hate over and over and over and over... and I think it's the main reason why politics has become so uncivil these days.

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