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Thread: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

  1. #33
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    Post Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    Quote Originally Posted by big easy View Post
    when someone has to pay more because someone else has been determined by the govt to not have enough money to pay the full amount, that is getting something free...
    You think you aren't already "paying more" because of our present dysfunctional system? Where do you think all the money comes from to provide health care for all those who use the emergency rooms of hospitals? How much more do you think it costs to treat someone for advanced diabetes or heart disease when they wait until they are very, very sick to go there? Because they have no health insurance and can't afford to get preventive care from a doctor?

    We're already paying for those who can't. As well as paying a third in costs for private insurance company profits. THAT'S the real crisis point here!

  2. #34
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    Post Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    where in this bill is tort reform? because the trial lawyer lobby..that's why.. why no ability to buy across state lines? why no ability for those in similar situations being able to pool together of health plans?

    1/3 of health care costs are from health insurance profits? how can that be? we discussed an article a couple of weeks ago that showed health ins profits were 1/8th of the amount on a yearly basis of medicare fraud alone... those profits are a very small percentage reines...not 33%

  3. #35
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    Post Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    I thought the bill sets aside money for grants to states to test new approaches to limiting lawsuits?

    Did that get dropped out? At any rate... malpractice lawsuits are only a very small portion of health care costs- about 2% from what I've read. It seems we can save more money by focusing on other things first.

    At any rate... you just can't pass a big bill like that without trying to appeal to as many people as possible. That's why it's not really what we need! They had to appeal to the insurance industry for support... which is why we don't have a public option! Now THAT would really drive down costs.

    I'm sorry Bigeasy- my mistake. I meant to say that a third of health care costs are from profits and operating costs- overhead. Which is three to four times higher in the private sector than it is under Medicare or SS!

  4. #36
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    Post Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    I listened on talk radio the other day to a heart surgeon whose mal practice premiums were $100,000 per year... it's not just the premiums and billions paid out, but all the unneccessary procedures the docs are forced to do out of fear... docs operating out of fear rather than common sense has a huge cost that can not accurately be tabulated...

    so are you saying that overall the insurance companies favored this legislation? if you have some stuff on that I would like to see it and no I'm not being sarcastic.. please also remember that groups like the AMA, and the AARP do not come close to representing the opinions of their members regarding this legislation...

    I would be willing to bet that when these profits and operating costs you mention when comparing the govt vs private sector if based on fuzzy math... I look forward to doing some research and debunking what is an obvious left winged myth...

  5. #37
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    Post Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    Well I have to go with the economists who actually researched this issue and tell us that malpractice reform is really only 2% or so of health care costs. I agree that doctors are too often calling for unecessary tests just to cover their asses- and that's why we need some form of means testing in health care. We're wasting tons of money on unecessary procedures and tests... with no actual research or studies to show which is best for doctors to do. BTW, your party actively condemns means testing no matter what. Kind of strange for a party that's supposedly so concerned with costs, eh?

    It appears that Barack Obama met with the private health insurers at the very beginning and asked them what it would take to get their "support"... the main thing being NO PUBLIC OPTION! Is it any surprise that we don't have a public option?
    I'm not saying that these insurers didn't work hard behind the scenes to try to stop reform- of course they did! The very last thing they really want is an end to their gravy train.
    But when they realized that some form of reform was going to pass... they got on board with the notion in order to have a say in what actually passed.
    As a result... we have health care reform guaranteed to throw them thirty or forty million new customers... and no public option!
    And isn't it funny that the private insurer stocks went wild on Wall Street? Passing health care reform certainly didn't cause investors to think twice about buying their stock!

  6. #38
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    Post Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    Quote Originally Posted by big easy View Post

    I would be willing to bet that when these profits and operating costs you mention when comparing the govt vs private sector if based on fuzzy math... I look forward to doing some research and debunking what is an obvious left winged myth...

    Yeah right... anything that doesn't go along with the ideologial belief that govt. is bad is just "fuzzy math", eh?

    Health care in America costs roughly twice as much per patient than in any other industrial nation... why do you think that is?
    The Catch-22 of our present "for profit" system is that profit is the motivating factor for the private insurers- not health care. And profit motivates insurance companies to not pay claims. They pay millions of people just to deny coverage! That's a lot of overhead.
    Think about it Bigeasy... it's just common sense. And industry who's future and profitability rests on NOT paying claims will certainly have higher operating costs than one where everyone gets care.
    Do you seriously think that every other govt. of every other industrialized country around the world is somehow wrong or lying when they show that they can provide health care at half the cost that we can?

    That's exactly why we can't get anything done in this country- because ideology trumps reality over and over again for so many people.

  7. #39
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    Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    health care sucks in other countries... I want nothing to do with their horrible system...

    their doctors don't have to pay back $250,000 loans and pay $100,000 in mal practice premiums every year either..

    we are 5% of the world's population with 20% of it's wealth...

    I want nothing to do with anything outside of our borders..they can keep it... we are exceptional and we should want to stay that way... not follow the lead of losers...

  8. #40
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    Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    Sounds a little Imperialistic, eh? Or was it just the way I read that.

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