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Thread: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

  1. #9
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    Feb 1999
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    Post Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    Time will tell who's on the correct side of health care reform, but spending billions of dollars in elective wars while people in this country went without affordable health care options is kind of a no-brainer.

    Sometimes, I wonder if we are a country with reason or just reactionaries to partisan opinions.

    Health care reform could have been a better bill IF the party of NO decided to get on board and support a bill that could benefit many American's instead of retreating to say screw you all. Republican's had a majority under GW and did nothing to reform health care. Now they act like they magically have all the answers...

    but what do they care? All those in Congress have the same great federal health care that I have... do to hubby being a now retired Fed employee.

  2. #10
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    Feb 2001
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    9,507

    Post Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    Hey Bigeasy, I'm glad to see you back! Hope you had a nice Easter.

    There's a lot of things I don't like about this health care bill... but we've got to do something. We've got to start somewhere. You say it's not about the individual... but it IS about the individual for millions of Americans! Our dysfunctional health care system affects all of us in one way or another. Sitting back and trusting the private markets to somehow fix all this... when they are only getting us more and more into dysfunction every year... makes no sense to me. Just how BAD do things have to get before Republicans feel any compunction to act? I don't understand this blind allegiance to "free markets" when over and over and over again our history shows that we need more.
    It's not about ideology or partisanship for me- it's about fixing something that's very, very wrong.

    And as for the initial costs... I look at it as the price we pay for savings down the road. Kind of like when you insulate your home or buy more efficient appliances- you pay more upfront... to save money in the future.

    And I wish those who are so concerned about our federal budget were as equally concerned about our three-trillion war we're fighting overseas... with no end in sight.

  3. #11
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    Jun 2003
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    3,781

    Post Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    happy Easter to you too Reines..

    I've listened to a lot of people who look at stats and the costs of medicaid, medicare, govt red tape, law suit abuse and many other factors that have driven the price up...

    the dems lied about the costs...they know they did.. I don't see how anybody can support a party that pushed through this economy killing montrocity with such dishonest measures...

    sure...when you single out certain things like pre-exist, affordability and portability, nobody is going to say those things don't have the ability to make some lives easier ... but when you accept the fact we have put in place a huge new entitlement that will end up totally ruining us...

    38 trillion already in unfunded social program mandates.. we can not sustain this... it will be our end if we don't get some fiscally minded reps in office...and I mean soon...we have got to repeal this for the future of our country.

  4. #12
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    Feb 2001
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    Post Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    But you're just ignoring the CBO estimate that this will reduce the deficit by $138 Billion over ten years! I don't think this is as dire a situation as your party likes to portray. Where was the urgency for fiscal responsibility when Republicans in Congress literally gave Bush a blank check for his unecessary war?

    Give it a chance... let's see how it all pans out before we start predicting doom.


    "Comprehensive health care reform will cost the federal government $940 billion over a ten-year period, but will increase revenue and cut other costs by a greater amount, leading to a reduction of $138 billion in the federal deficit over the same period, according to an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office, a Democratic source tells HuffPost. It will cut the deficit by $1.2 trillion over the second ten year period.
    The source said it also extends Medicare's solvency by at least nine years and reduces the rate of its growth by 1.4 percent, while closing the doughnut hole for seniors, meaning there will no longer be a gap in coverage of medication. The CBO also estimated it would extend coverage to 32 million additional people."

  5. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    3,781

    Post Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    reines...the CBO can only draw "conclusions" based on what is given to them...

    everybody knows this now.. the "doctor fix" was not factored in to that report... the double dipping on medicare... even that report has side notes saying this isn't complete without other info...

    read that report and please tell me where they are wrong about about the true costs of this bill...

    the dems flat out lied about it saving money...

    and it will kill jobs and ruin our economy even further than what soc sec, medicaid and medicare will do.. the first to go bankrupt will be the states from medicare..

    auto industry, energy industry, financial services, student loans, and now health care... what's next ?... food? auto repair? cash for clunkers?...oops..forgot..already tried that one...

  6. #14
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    Dec 2009
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    Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    Politicians on both sides lied. They always do about ever issue, remember that they are owned by their lobby groups and need to pony up. I figure that they will revise it a million times before we know the real costs, more lobby groups to yet be pacified.

  7. #15
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    Post Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    But Bigeasy... the CBO is the agreed-upon "arbitor" for numbers. They are b-partisan. Your party has no problem using their figures whenever it suits them... so you can't exactly shun them now, can you?

    I don't believe that it's a lie that health care reform will save us money. Maybe not at first... but down the road, yes! And if saving money is really what we want- then we should ALL be behind a single-payer system! Because getting the private insurance middle-man OUT of health care would automatically save a third in costs!

    This is what I think: I think most people in your party aren't really concerned about the deficit or costs. (After all, remember when Dick Cheney famously said "Deficits don't matter"?) I think they are ideologically opposed to any infringement on the mantra of free markets... even if it means that these "free markets" (as in health insurance) are free to ruin and destroy people's lives.

    But talking about ideology just isn't as attention-getting as talking about being in debt! Not everyone can relate or understand ideology... and how it impacts our day to day life. But everyone can understand being in debt. (Well, almost everyone!) So Republicans are grasping on to this deficit thing as the easiest way to manipulate the public. All of a sudden they are the keepers of the budget... even though they always drive up huge deficits whenever they are in power!
    There's just no way to get around it Bigeasy- if your party really cared about balancing budgets... then HOW do you explain the eight years under Bush?

    I guess you guys are counting on the public having the attention span of a one-year old.

  8. #16
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    Jun 2003
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    3,781

    Post Re: so whose lying? those who support the new law or those who oppose?

    again..the CBO can only produce reports based on what is presented to them...

    how can you argue the dems didn't lie about this "deficit neutral" part of the bill after reading that article? the CBO report itself mentions the numbers can only be as good as the projections of the suppliers of the info...

    this is NOT deficit neutral...that was a lie..plain and simple.. you say "maybe not at first"... well that's not what the prez and the dems said is it?... think about it...question it... the fact is that it will only be another failed, bank breaking government failure.. another step towards our empire crumbling...

    medicare has already screwed up the costs enough... it is going to bankrupt the states... this bill is already going to cost employers billions in new taxes.. this will be past down to employees via lower wages and the prices we pay for their goods and services will go up to cover the costs...

    38 trillion in unfunded left winged mandates... they've always lied in the beginning about the costs...

    23% of PCP's are contemplating giving up their practices. pharmacies and doctors are turning away more and more medicare patients... if you think the AMA represents the opinions of the majority of doctors, you should read more about that topic...

    please tell me how adding millions of new patients while doctors are falling like flies is going to reduce costs... better yet, please tell me the true history of govt subsidies and their overall impact on the cost of the subsidized product...

    not to mention the tacticts used to get this country killing bill through..

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