adam and eve are...

[annsensei]

who do you think the skeletons are after seeing last night's season finale? did it change your opinion?

[mtj]

No, it didn't change my opinion.
From very early on in this story, I have thought that Rose and Bernard had a great deal of significance.
Much more than Jack and Kate.
Rose and Bernard have always represented true love.
Not the twisted, somewhat dysfunctional love that has been represented in Jack and Kate and Sawyer and Kate.
I think Sawyer pretty much said his goodbye to Kate when she came crawling into bed with him after Ben told her to get the hell out of New Otherton.
Kate went slinking back to Sawyer for one last roll in the hay,
before once again, going back to Jack.
And Sawyer finally saw Kate for who she was.
A woman who would just cling to the nearest man around, for comfort, when things got out of sorts.
I think that last sexual encounter between James Ford and Kate,
made James Ford realize that he wanted a woman of substance.
And that Kate was not that woman.
That is why James Ford ended up, happily in love with Juliet.
I hope that love story has a happy ending.

[Thor Twain]

Ha ha ha, I can't believe you read Kate so wrong! Kate finally realized who Sawyer really was. She ditched him! He was so happy she wasn't pregnant. That let Kate realize he wasn't and never would be husband material. He's been selfish right from the get go and has proven it time and time again. He has left people behind over and over again. Hurley said Sawyer wouldn't leave them behind, but that's exactly what he was going to do. If not for Juliet, he would have been just happy doing that and leaving all of his 'friends' on the island to die. I don't get what people see in Sawyer. He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Jack, who has always tried to do what was best for the group. He's always had other people's interests at heart. Sawyer has only thought of himself. He's not worthy of Kate OR Juliet.

And if Sawyer was so happily in love with Juliet, why did Kate showing up threaten their relationship so much? It's because Juliet could see who he really cared for. Juliet was all right as long as Kate wasn't around. She was a fine substitute, but when the first string showed back up, she was relegated back to the bench like any backup is when the starter returns from injury!

[mtj]

Oh, I respectfully disagree.
Kate bounced from Jack to Sawyer, whenever it gave her comfort in the moment.
I think Jack and Sawyer both loved Kate,
but I don't think Kate was capable of loving either of them.
Not in a real, true way.
Look at what happened when Jack and Kate left the island, and set up house keeping together.
Sawyer still came between them, due to Kate's inability to keep Sawyer and his "promise asked" out of their lives.
There was no reason why Kate couldn't have told Jack what she promised Sawyer about Clementine.
Except for the fact that Kate still felt guilty about her feelings for Sawyer.
Aaron wasn't the reason that Jack left Kate.
He left her because he realized that he would never be number one in her heart.
Not above Aaron, and not above Sawyer.
As for Sawyer, well he found redemption by spinning backwards in time.
He found a place where he not only belonged, but where he had status.
And a lady who loved him.
A lady who wasn't constantly crawling into his bed and then returning to her "other guy".
I think the reason the writers put Sawyer and Juliet together, was to make another point about real love.
Like they are making with Rose and Bernard.
Sawyer and Juliet learned what Rose and Bernard know about love.
It's not about who gives you the hots at any given moment.
It's who you want to hold hands with, and walk into the next lifetime beside.
Love isn't about sweaty sex in the jungle, or cage copulation.
It's about feeling someone's warm breath on your back as you fall asleep,
and knowing they will still be there in the morning when you wake up.
Kate has always struck me as too shallow to even come close to that.
The entire development of Kate's character has been to show that she is incapable of commitment.

[Thor Twain]

Kate truly loves Jack. I have no doubts about that. Sawyer was just her rebound. She thought she had lost Jack and Juliet certainly helped put that thought in her head. In a way, she's a perfect match for Sawyer because she's just as manipulative as he is. Juliet is just as good of a con artist as he is. She tried like heck to manipulate the situation so she could get Jack. I don't know that she really loves Sawyer, either. Sawyer just seems to be around to pick up Jack's leftovers!

Um... there's a little thing called trust. Jack should have trusted Kate. She asked him to trust her, but he wouldn't let it go. He's the one that broke them up. Why did he have to know where she was or what she was doing? When you love someone, you trust them. He didn't know it, but he was and is number 1 in her heart. He still doesn't know it, but he should have.

Sawyer and Juliet didn't teach us anything about real love. They ended up together out of circumstances. They went through a lot with the time travelling and all. But as soon as Kate walks back into his life, Sawyer starts to forget about Juliet. How that must have broken Juliet's heart! Even 3 years together couldn't put out Sawyer's flame for Kate.

I'll just add one more thing here. Sawyer settled for Juliet and Juliet settled for Sawyer.

[soapyCJ]

I voted it was Rose and Bernard. It showed them at their little "garden of eden" and they seemed quite happy. So happy that they didn't want to leave it behind.

I think at the end that Sawyer truly loves Juliet. He just had some good "sex' with Kate.

What will we do till next season??? I will miss it so much.

[mtj]

I think Kate's theme song is "Love The One You're With".
If she loved Jack so much, what was up with her jumping Sawyer in the cage?
Or was that just a mercy F because she thought Sawyer was going to be killed the following day?
I think the off island Jack and Kate went sour not due to lack of trust, but due to Jack's addiction problems. Compounded by his guilt about Aaron.
Sawyer ended up together due to circumstances?
Yep.
But didn't all these people end up together due to circumstances?
I think Jack and Kate will end up together again.
I think having Sawyer and Juliet get together was a vehicle to end the triangle.
Which would be nice, because I could never stand for the fickle way in which Kate acted in the context of that triangle.
The only reason Kate cozied up to Sawyer that last time, is because she thought she might be pregnant with his baby.
Once she figured out that she wasn't, back to Jack she went.

[Thor Twain]

Don't you think it's possible to love two people at once? It's not like Kate was jumping every guy out there. She shared a lot in common with Sawyer with their pasts, but Jack is the better person. Jack is selfless and the leader who is always trying to do the right thing for everyone. Kate does, too, and in that way, she has a lot in common with Jack.

Yes, it may very well have been a mercy F, either thinking he was going to be killed or just that she felt sorry for him and the way he was being treated. I think she loves both men, so it's not like she would have done that for anyone.

I don't know if Jack was so guilty about Aaron, but just leaving everyone behind... and also when he started seeing his dad. He probably thought he was going nuts like Hurley!

You're still reading Kate wrong. She didn't cozy up with Sawyer because she thought she might be having his baby. She wanted to see if there was any reason to stay on the island. Sawyer flunked the test with his relief that she wasn't pregnant. You don't think that would hurt? Yes, anybody could understand the relief of finding that out, especially with the circumstances on the island, but still... the romantic side of Kate, of any woman I'd think, would be to want to have a baby with the man you love. She took Sawyer's reaction as a rejection of her. You see the same hurt in her face when Jack is talking about erasing the past. He describes the last 3 years as misery. Kate says it wasn't all misery. She was talking about their relationship, obviously. She's hurt that Jack would wipe that all away or kill everyone trying. Again, she takes that as a rejection, so she is constantly feeling rejected by the men she loves.

[mtj]

She wanted to see if there was any reason to stay on the island. Sawyer flunked the test with his relief that she wasn't pregnant. You don't think that would hurt? Yes, anybody could understand the relief of finding that out, especially with the circumstances on the island, but still... the romantic side of Kate, of any woman I'd think, would be to want to have a baby with the man you love. She took Sawyer's reaction as a rejection of her. You see the same hurt in her face when Jack is talking about erasing the past. He describes the last 3 years as misery. Kate says it wasn't all misery. She was talking about their relationship, obviously. She's hurt that Jack would wipe that all away or kill everyone trying. Again, she takes that as a rejection, so she is constantly feeling rejected by the men she loves.
I agree with almost every word of that.
Except this...if Kate HAD been pregnant, that would have been a MAJOR reason to get off the island.
Considering what happens to pregnant women on the island.
But I agree with everything you said about Kate and her being rejected by the men she loves.