The Variable

[colette h]

i watched promo videos for tomorrow epi., "The Variable" and I saw a few promo photos. Well, I am not sure that things are going to be OK for our dear losties. I know, I know, we have seen them in previous episodes, living in the future (around 2004, right?). What if... they were all ghosts? If not all of them, a few of them.
Col
http://miceandchips.com/bluemood

[Thor Twain]

Wow, awesome episode! They aren't ghosts, though. They were in the future before they were in the past, that's all.

Wow, so Widmore did say he was Daniel's father, right? And we got confirmation of why the hatch was built and why they were pushing the button and why the plane crashed. This show is so well planned out, especially this season.

What a shocking ending! I'm glad I stopped reading spoilers. I didn't see this ending coming at all! I love it when they end with a twist.

[Thor Twain]

Oh, another answer... Widmore admitted to putting the plane on the bottom of the ocean to fake the crash. We didn't hear why, though.

Faraday's girlfriend, Theresa got sick after his time travel experiments, but he had tested it on himself first. We see that that and the time travel is what caused him to be in his mental state we saw at the beginning of the season. I love how they're tying everything together.

Now Widmore is Daniel's father... is Eloise also Penny's mother? We've never met her. Or, did Widmore get booted from the island because, as Ben said, he had a baby with an outsider. I'd have to assume that Penny is NOT Eloise's daughter then, that she has another mother. Will it be somebody we know?

Who thinks they'll be successful in stopping the accident from happening? If they stop their plane from ever crashing, think of all the things that will be changed. Everyone who was killed on the island would be alive again. Sun probably runs away from Jin and they never have a baby. Kate ends up in jail. Sawyer probably goes on conning people and ends up in jail. There are several of these people who would not want to change what happened!

Will they get to the end of this show and NONE of it happened? That may be the question at the end of the season. What would that mean for season 6? What would they do for season 6 if they're successful? It's mind boggling!

[Thor Twain]

I see this as dealing with one of the main themes this show has always dealt with... fate vs. destiny. Do we control our own fate or are we destined to end up where we end up? And IF we could change things we did in the past, should we? Jack answers with a definite yes. He wants to change it so they avoid the misery of crashing on the island and everything that has happened since. Will changing that avoid the misery, though? Maybe he'll go back to L.A. and STILL end up a drunk who nearly commits suicide. Maybe he'd even succeed. Maybe his destiny can't be changed and he would still end up miserable back on the mainland. Or maybe... that plane was destined to crash no matter what. Maybe they never make it back to L.A. and end up on another island!

The problem for the show if they succeed is where do they go from there? If this was the last season of the show, I'd say they have a much better chance of changing things and never crashing on the island. I don't think they'll succeed, but if they do... it'll leave us scratching our heads until next January... AGAIN!

[mtj]

What about that little lesson from Eloise to Desmond about course correction?
If you follow that line of thinking, it seems that destiny is destiny and can't be changed.
Remember what she said about the man in the red shoes.
How if she had warned him about he building collapse, he would have still died under some other circumstances?
It seems that maybe Desmond is the key to a lot of what is going to happen.
Because when you think about it, maybe Ocean Flight 815 was never supposed to crash.
Desmond more or less made that happen.
Hmm.
I need to watch "The Variable" about three more times.

[colette h]

Of course I can't answer any of the questions posed here, it's too early. I just ruminate some more about two recent titles: Dead is dead, and Whatever happened, happened.
I can, also, vote for or against the possibility to change the past. I vote against it. If somehow somebody said that Charlie Pace didn't drown, then I would vote the other way.
Nikki
http://miceandchips.com/bluemood

[mtj]

If the plane never crashed, Charlie Pace never drowned.
A bunch of other things never happened either.
All the people who are dead, aren't dead.
Boone, Shannon, Ana Lucia, Libby, Ecko, Nicky, Paulo, Charlie, Artz, Rousseau, Alex, Carl, etc.
All not dead if the plane never crashed.
Locke is still paralyzed if the plane never crashed.
Rose is still dying.
The entire story line falls apart if history get re-written and the plane never crashed.
It doesn't make sense.
And if there is no incident, there is never any mention of it in the Dharma tapes that the LOSTIES find.
Consider this...Faraday might just have been wrong.

[annsensei]

I've thought for about a year that the end of the show would be the original plane landing in LA having never crashed. I can see the camera shot walking slowly down the aisle as it passes each of the losties that we've come to know and love in their original seats.

I think this season will end with them trying to stop the incident from happening, and being whisked back thru time when the island starts jumping again. maybe they'll jump even further into the past and have a chance to stop the people that brought the bomb in the first place.

as for what will they do next season, I want to know why richard never ages!!! I think they don't age once they become adults on the island. the kids still grow up (like alex), but the adults don't seem to change. even ellie looked like the same young actress that played ellie in the 50s. widmore (that was banished, that was played by the modern widmore actor) may have aged because he had spent so much time off the island.

there's still a LOT of questions that I want answered, but last night's episode was GREAT!!!

[mtj]

I've thought for about a year that the end of the show would be the original plane landing in LA having never crashed. I can see the camera shot walking slowly down the aisle as it passes each of the losties that we've come to know and love in their original seats.


Personally, I can't handle that ending.
It would be like the Dallas "it was all a dream" ending.
They have to come up with something more intriguing than that.

[annsensei]

ITA!!! I REALLY don't want them to go there!!! but after last night's show, I can see how they could get there pretty easily. maybe that's how they'll end THIS season, then undo it next season. the island corrects the course, right? lol

[mtj]

From what I've heard, next season is about some kind of battle for the island.
However this story plays out, I totally don't want it to end with a "this never happened" scenario.
That would suck, like ten.

[Thor Twain]

Eloise might have been wrong about the universe course correcting. If it does, then why is she so worried about these people getting to where they need to be? Why does she need to push them? They'd get there eventually, right? I think things CAN change. How could they not? Like Faraday said last night, he forgot about the variables... the people. Obviously, if you put a person into a time he was never in before, things will change. If Sawyer was never in 1974 and was never LaFleur before, then him showing up there has already changed things. Unless... it's something that was SUPPOSED to happen, in which case he always ends up travelling back and becoming a part of Dharma. But, as we've seen, if the people have been there before, then why wouldn't they remember each other? Why wouldn't Desmond have recognized Daniel the minute he got to the island? He would have already met him at the hatch door. So... I think things can be changed and Faraday finally got that right.

[mtj]

I have this odd feeling that we are about to get a healthy serving of "parallel universe" theory.
As in, they are existing in the past and the present at the same time, neither affecting each other.
Gotta go, my head hurts now.

[colette h]

We have seen Eloise Hawking at various ages. Played by different actresses. We saw her first in 1996 when Desmond met her in the jewelry store. I don't think we saw her, so far, later that 1996. Does it mean that she is not "from the future", that is she is dead after 1996?
I have been thinking about various other characters
in terms of their changed/or not changed appearance through the years.
Nikki
http://miceandchips.com/bluemood

[Thor Twain]

We saw her in 2007 last episode when she talked to Penny in the hospital. We also saw her in 2007 when she was trying to convince Jack and everyone to go back to the island.

[ridrfan]

I dont see them just being able to change things, because what would happen to them if it did? Would they disappear ala Marty McFly from Back to the Future. They wouldnt just disappear. Like you said, there is going to be some type of battle. Isnt that what the producers said in the beginning, how its going to be like The Stand?

[mtj]

Okay, some comments after watching a third time.
So, somehow, Faraday leaves the island.
I'm assuming he left on the sub.
Then he comes back, because he finds a picture of Jack, Hurley, et al at the Dharma picnic in 1977.
Jack tells Faraday that his mother sent them.
Faraday is adamant that his mother is wrong.
All things considered, I'm starting to agree with Dan on that one.
Side note: Both times we see Faraday playing the piano, he's playing "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows".
Hmm.
Two interesting statements:
Eloise To Daniel: It's my job to keep you on your path.
Daniel's Reply: I can do both. (Meaning music and stay on his path). I CAN MAKE TIME.
Oh boy Dan, you sure managed to do that, didn't you?
It seems Sawyer and the other LOSTIES know their time in Dharmaville has come to an end.
I'm not sure why they are haggling over the sub or the beach.
Um, doesn't getting OFF the island seem more appealing?
Faraday tells them that his mother is the only one who can get them back to where they belong.
Where is that, I wonder.
Another interesting exchange:
Jack To Sawyer: We don't belong here.
Sawyer To Jack: We belonged here just fine until you came along.
Faraday's exchange with Widmore was interesting.
Faraday makes a point of saying he has a "condition" that affects his memory.
Widmore then lays all this truth on him, about the plane wreck and about Widmore being his (Dan's) father, because...as Widmore says...Dan won't remember it all tomorrow.
Hmm.
The most "oh my God, he DIDN'T just say that" line:
Sawyer to Kate: Come with us Freckles.
Juliet's response: It's over for us here anyway.
There is a lot of truth and sadness in that response to Sawyer from Juliet.
And I'm really going to hate it if Sawyer and Juliet are over because Kate is back.
I like Sawyer and Juliet together.
And I do have hope after that,
"Still got my back?"
"Still got mine?" ...exchange between them.
Dan pretty much lays down the heavy truth of the espisode.
"This is our present. Anyone of us can die."
I believe that was a shout out to the viewers who keep thinking that they can't die because they are in the past.
Like me. :confused:
Faraday seems convinced that blowing Jughead will keep "The Incident" from happening.
Oh, and I digress in my chronology, but why was the guy who was injured in the Orchid talking about time travel?
And how did Faraday know what time Chang would get to the Orchid?
Funniest exchange of the episode:
Kate to Jack: Making it so the plane doesn't crash? Do you know how insane that is?
Jack to Kate: I'm getting kind of used to insane.
Sad, sad, sad...
Faraday To The Mother From Hell: You knew, you always knew this was going to happen, and you sent me here anyway.
Oh Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From glen to glen, and down the mountain side
The summer's gone, and all the flowers are dying
'Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must bide.
But come ye back when summer's in the meadow
Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow
'Tis we'll be here in sunshine or in shadow
Oh Danny boy, oh Danny boy, we'll miss you so.
(I'm Irish, I had to do that)

[Thor Twain]

Did you catch Sawyer's question to Miles? He asked, "Is he still crazy?" I'm assuming he left the island because he was having some mental/emotional problems. If you remember when he saw Charlotte when they first reached Dharmaville, he became kind of weepy and that was the last time we saw him until this episode. He must have been OK back in the states, though, because they said he was a scientist from Ann Arbor. I would think that means he was at the University of Michigan, which has ties to the DeGroots from the orientation film back in season 2.

I'm still holding to the belief that Faraday's mother was right. They had to go back. They probably weren't supposed to end up in 1977, but maybe she didn't know that would happen. I don't know.

Another interesting thing is that when Eloise tells Dan he can't play the piano anymore, when she walks into the room, she's teary-eyed. Did she just remember she shot Dan back in 1977? It makes me wonder if she had a Desmond moment... Faraday tells Desmond on the island to find his mother and he doesn't get the message until 2007. Maybe, if this is the first time she's lived this, she shoots Dan on the island and then just realizes it now when he's playing the piano. ??? Why would it all of a sudden become so important to send him back that he needed to stop piano? She must have realized something at that particular moment.

And I just realized something else. Eloise is NOT Penny's mom. When she talked to her in the hospital, Penny asked if she knew her and Eloise said she didn't. The only way she'd be her mother, which I never thought very likely, would be if she gave her up for adoption.

Why didn't Sawyer and Juliet leave the island a long time ago? They could have left on the sub. Juliet, especially, was so anxious to leave before. I know, it's a different year, and that's probably why. Everything would have been different, anyway, so they stayed to make a life there.

Faraday's "condition" is from his time experiments he'd been doing. It affected his memory, but it really hurt Theresa. Remember he said he tested it on himself first? He did... and it caused his memory problems, but it affected her much more severely.

Widmore told Dan he faked the plane crash he was seeing, but I do not believe he told him he was his dad. He mentioned to Eloise that he was also Dan's father and she slapped him. She slapped him, I think, because she knew she ended up shooting Dan. Widmore was talking about his sacrifices, but they paled in comparison to shooting your own son.

Dan's comment about 'any one of us can die' is an ominous foreshadowing. As has been rumored, a big death is coming. I've heard rumors all season about who it might be. If it's true, there will be some ticked off people... but I haven't read recently that this person will die.

They're in the past, but they travelled there from the future. They experienced 2007 before they experienced these events on the island in 1977. That's why they can die and it wouldn't affect what happened previously in the future.

Didn't anybody catch the funniest line of the night? When Sawyer talked about having been in 1954, Hurley asks, "You were in 1954? You mean in Fonzie time?" :)

[colette h]

Hi Thor, very nice Irish lines. About Eloise: She changed in the past, at the various times we saw her. But in 2007 she looks exactly the same as in her last appearances in the story quite a few years back. I wonder if her appearances in 2007 are as a ghost?
Col
http://miceandchips.com/bluemood

[Thor Twain]

I don't think so. Why do you think she's a ghost?

[mtj]

I quit thinking that Eloise might be Penny's Mom when Ben said that Widmore had a child with an "outsider".
To me, that was the explanation for Penny.
Apparently, Widmore gets around. ;)
Okay Thor, they HAD to go back.
Not necessarily to the "past island" but to the island nonetheless.
I think they HAD to go back because of what's coming up.
And that is some sort of battle with Iliana and her gang.
A question.
Where in the hell is Sayid?

[Thor Twain]

And just to set the record straight, it was MTJ with the nice Irish lines. :)

Will Penny's mom be someone we know? That will be interesting to see.

Ah, Sayid. He found Rose and Bernard in the shadow of the statue. :D

[Thor Twain]

I have a question... Faraday said he was going to destroy the energy by detonating a hydrogen bomb. OK, from what I remember, energy can neither be created nor destroyed. How is he going to 'destroy' it with a hydrogen bomb? It doesn't make sense to me. Wouldn't the hydrogen bomb just make it worse? Wouldn't it just unleash even more powerful energy?

I think you're right. I think the coming war will be between Iliana's gang and our Losties.

[mtj]

I did some reading about Ilana at Lost Pedia.
Apparently, she was drinking McCutcheon Whiskey when she met Sayid in the bar.
Hmm.
This whole bit about "what lies in the shadow of the statue" is ominous.
I'm wondering if Ilana and Bram are some kind of reincarnated "original" island inhabitants.
Here is an interesting trivia tidbit about the name Bram from Lost Pedia...

Abraham "Bram" Stoker is the author of Dracula, one of the most famous "undead" characters in literature. Stoker also wrote The Lair Of The White Worm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lair_of_the_White_Worm) and The Jewel of Seven Stars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jewel_of_Seven_Stars). The first is about an ancient serpent living under an English manor, leading its inhabitants to the occult. The latter is about an attempt to reanimate an Egyptian mummy.

Also, I'm wondering if Sayid has been spying on Ilana & Company and his observations will come in handy later on.

[Thor Twain]

Sayid is back in 1977, so he couldn't have been spying on them.

That's pretty interesting about Bram. Sounds pretty familiar!

[colette h]

Oops sorry Mtj. Nice Irish lines. Always doing three things at the same time, and none well-done!.
As for Eloise, Thor... Well. It's partly wish partly guessing by comparison to other LOST ghosts' physical appearance and clothing, also by comparison to Eloise's physical appearance and clothing at various stages of her life.
Speaking of dead characters: Daniel Faraday wore a tie when we first saw him on LOST island. I hope we'll know why even though he was shot!!!
Col
http://miceandchips.com/bluemood