Thoughts on the finale

[Thor Twain]

What is the island? Is it really a machine? Is it a submarine or a spaceship? We may have just seen how the Black Rock ship got onto the island. When it was moved another time, it popped up and the Black Rock was in the water where it popped up, becoming land locked.

It's getting very hard to tell who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? Aaron is not supposed to be raised by anybody other than Claire, but he is. Ben and Locke want the island protected and Ben now wants the O6 to go back to the island. Claire, who we last saw with Christian and who I thought was working for the island, too, does not want Kate to take Aaron back to the island. Aren't Christian and Ben on the same team? I thought so. Now it looks like Sun is switching to Widmore's team. I think she wants revenge on Ben and Jack. I think she blames Jack for Jin's death, too, but it wasn't his fault. If he hadn't gotten Kate and made it to the helicopter, they'd both be dead. Maybe she doesn't blame him, but just doesn't like him much now.

We know what happens to Ben immediately after he moves the island. He ends up in the desert and goes about recruiting Sayid. I thought it was cool how they tied that all together, right down to how Ben hurt his arm. We still don't know how he transported there, though.

We also know that last year's season ending flash forward took place in 2007, 3 years after they got off the island. The 'he' Kate was talking about seems to just be Aaron. I wonder what Sawyer's favor was that he asked of Kate on the helicopter. I guess we'll see that next year.

This thought occurred to me as I was watching...........Jack wasn't exactly lying at the trial. After the helicopter crash, Kate did help get people to the raft.

Charlotte was on the island before. Is she Annie? She's looking for the place she was born, which I'm taking to be the island. If she is Annie, why wouldn't she and Ben have acknowledged each other?

One of the funniest lines of the night was when Ben talked about time travelling bunnies. Halliwax was talking about setting a time shift and a Kazimir Effect. It leads me to wonder if the island really moved physically. I doubt it. I think they time shifted it so it appeared to disappear. That would explain the other time differences. Maybe the island is always out of time shift after it has been moved.

Another funny scene, Hurley checkmating Eko!

I read that the producers want us to ask what 'dead' is. I guess we can ask that question on several levels. If Locke is dead, what good would it do to take his body back to the island? That leads me to wonder if Locke will turn out to be Jacob. His body has been separated from his soul, which has been trapped on the island. We've been asking if Claire is dead. How can she appear in a dream to Kate then? I don't think it's necessarily a dream, but that she was actually communicating with Kate. Same with Christian. He's dead, but keeps appearing everywhere. Hurley is talking to dead people all the time and Miles had that ability, too. Are they trying to say being dead is just another plane of existence? Weird.

In case anybody missed the strange commercial, check this out. http://www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com/

I went there and they are asking for you to submit your e-mail address to register your interest for a recruitment drive July 24-27 in San Diego. I checked and this is when the Comic-Con is being held. I wonder if it's a contest to win a trip to it or if they'll just send you info about it.

[lizzibelle02]

Ur right about the blk rock Thor. You also gotta remember how Eko's brother Yemi's plane was also crashed onto the island. There is no way in hell that small dinky plane flew alway the from The West coast of Africa Nigeria, flew across the entire continent of Africa, and the Indian Ocean, and crashed onto the island in the S. Pacific. Im thinking that island was moved before and was proberly near Africa.

I don't think Sun is working with or for Widmore. I think she is working for Ben. She knows that Widmore was behind the freighter and crazy ass Keamy with his C4. Ben wasn't entirely responsible for the freighter blowing up, it was Widmore. She was there when Ben told Jack not to contact that boat, cause they will come and kill them. Im also thinking that she is double agent to bring Widmore to Ben.

Actually Thor its 2 years later after they were rescued. Cause Danielle was shot on 12-27. Then 2 days later the freigher blows up and then the O6 including Des and Lapidus runs into Penny's boat, and 10 days later the sailed into the Sunda trench. So its early 2005.
I don't think Charlotte is Annie. She is waaaayyyy to young to be Annie. Its possible that she is Ben and Annie's daughter. But who knows.
I thought the funniest part of tonight was when Rose telling Miles "He needed to ask before he ate those peanuts" and she was going to keep an eye on him. gotta love Rose.
Yeah I saw that commerical. Im going to enter just in case. Cause I want to go to comic con. I read on another board that one thought it was a a real Job-fair. Pulease. In the commerial it said...'unpaid'. Now who is going to go to job fair that doesn't pay?

This is going to be one long 9months. what to do what to do. I know give my brain a rest. When this show is on.....my brain is on over drive.

[Thor Twain]

That's a good possibility with Sun. I guess it all depends on who she blames for Jin's death. She might blame Widmore for sending the boat and having Keamy put the C4 on it or she might blame Ben for killing Keamy and triggering the explosives. It's just that Jack made the comment towards the end that Sun didn't like him very much now, so that makes it sound like she holds him partially responsible, too, but I'd say he's not very responsible for it at all.

I was thinking about that later, that Charlotte is too young to be Annie. With this show, though, anything is possible with how they play with time and age. If she was Ben's daughter, why would he have tried to kill her earlier this season? It's a new mystery that will have to be uncovered in the next two seasons!

Ha ha, that was funny about Rose. "Did anybody tell you you could eat those peanuts?" "May I eat the peanuts?" LOL!

[Thor Twain]

How could Locke die? The obit had said it was a suicide, but Sayid implied it wasn't. At any rate, if they have to take Locke back to the island, Locke must have more work to do. If he has more work to do, why would the island allow him to die? What can he do dead? What IS dead? :D

[Moola]

Jeremy Bentham?!
Michael and Jin dead!
Kate still freaked out about that day 3 years later - I'm not sure why.
Hurley hanging with most of the island dead lol
Sawyer sacrifices yet again, and manages to loose his shirt (I'm not complaining, mind you :))
Something about Sun's reaction to Jin's death was off, not sure what yet.
It's Penny's boat!!! RIP Charlie, I wish you could have been there.
Was I the only one vaguely grossed out by Des and Penny kissing ? All I could think was "I wonder when he last brushed his teeth?"
I'm going to miss Desmond, I doubt that his character will be used as much now. Pity, he's a good actor.
Anyone catch what Sawyer whispered to Kate?
What is up with the numbered bunnies? I think I've forgotten some details.
Ben, Ben, Ben, you sociopath you. "So"? Best line of the night.
The island is a giant freezer!
With all that it takes to MOVE an ISLAND you'd think there would be buttons with pretty lights or high tech looking levers.. but a Donkey Wheel?!
I think we'll get Charlotte's story next season, Miles seems to know more than we do.
What happened to the boat that was on it's way to the freighter?
So did Juliet see the smoke from the explosion before the explosion happened? just like the body washed up before he was killed? or not?
Good riddance to bad Keamy!

[Thor Twain]

I'm still not sure Jin is dead. Everyone thinks he is, but I'm hoping he jumped from the freighter and maybe got pulled down with the island.

I think Desmond will be back. Don't forget, Ben is going after Widmore's daughter, Penny. Desmond will have to protect her.

No, I didn't catch what Sawyer whisperedto Kate. I'm sure it wasn't in the closed captioning, either. It was the favor Kate was doing for him, I'm sure.

Did anybody hear what they said on the phone to Kate? I read on another site that it said something about how she had to go back to the island. Then when she goes into Aaron's room, Claire was telling Kate not to take Aaron. I think maybe they will go back, but they won't be taking Aaron.

Dharma was experimenting with the numbered bunnies. They were doing some time travelling experiments with them.

I'm going to miss Keamy. I thought he was a pretty good 'bad' character. I would have liked to see him and Mikhail square off. :D

[mtj]

Perhaps the biggest question from this finale is, how did Locke get off the island?
The second biggest question is why did they have to move the island after they took care of Keamy and Company?
My guess is because they knew that Widmore knew where the island was.
Good for the male viewers.
I think there were more gratuitous shots of Evangeline Lily's cleavage in this episode than any other. :rolleyes:
I thought Ben's question to Keamy was interesting.
"Did Charles Widmore tell you to kill my daughter?"
I really don't think that was in Widmore's plan.
I think Keamy "improvised" and that is why Ben found Widmore with a bottle of Scotch by his bed.
Great fight scene between Sayid and Keamy.
I'm not sure what we are to make of that visit between Walt and Hurley.
Other than the reveal that Locke went to see Walt.
I love this from Locke to Jack...
"Lie to them Jack. If you do it half way as well as you lie to yourself, they'll believe you."
Great exchange between Rose and Miles.
About the peanuts and how she'll be watching him.
I loved that she called him "shorty".
Another great exchange between Miles and Charlotte.
Miles: All that time you spent trying to get back here.
Charlotte: What do you mean?
Miles: What DO I mean?
Another great exchange was between Jack and Locke in The Orchid.
Locke: It's not an island, it's a place where miracles happen.
Once again, the face off between the man of science and the man of faith. Ben had some great lines, as usual.
Jack pulls a gun on him and Ben says "Hello Jack, nice to see you too."
And Ben's remark about how "All the Dharma Stations were for silly experiments" was hysterical.
I have to wonder where the "somewhere safe" is that Sayid is taking Hurley.
I also have to wonder what in the hell they were feeding Aaron through this whole ordeal.
Didn't anyone in props think to include a bottle or two in a few scenes?
So...they all have to go back and they have to tote Locke's dead corpse along with them.
The writers, as usual, have a lot of explaining to do.
More later after I watch one more time.

[Thor Twain]

I'm wondering if Locke had to again move the island...........or more likely, he was getting off the island like Ben and Alpert seem to be able to do.

Hey, I didn't complain about Sawyer coming out of the water with no shirt on, the least you can do is allow us a bit of Evangeline's cleavage! :D

About Keamy, and I've read this elsewhere, too, why didn't Locke take the device and strap it to his own arm? If he'd have done it quickly enough, then maybe the freighter wouldn't have blown up.

This show likes to pay homage to other books and movies. Next year is Weekend at Bernie's with Jack and Ben carrying around Locke's corpse. :D

[Thor Twain]

About the real Jeremy Bentham, a couple of things from Wikipedia that stuck out to me are:

Among his many proposals for legal and social reform was a design for a prison building he called the Panopticon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon). Although it was never built, the idea had an important influence upon later generations of thinkers. Twentieth-century French philosopher Michel Foucault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault) argued that the Panopticon was paradigmatic of a whole raft of nineteenth-century 'disciplinary' institutions.

The Panopticon is a type of prison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison) building designed by English philosopher Jeremy Bentham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham) in 1785. The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell whether they are being watched, thereby conveying what one architect has called the "sentiment of an invisible omniscience (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omniscience)."[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon#cite_note-0)
Bentham himself described the Panopticon as "a new mode of obtaining power of mind over mind, in a quantity hitherto without example."[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon#cite_note-1)


And this was interesting as well:

As requested in his will (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_%28law%29), his body was preserved and stored in a wooden cabinet, termed his "Auto-icon". Originally kept by his disciple Dr. Southwood Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Southwood_Smith),[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham#cite_note-10) it was acquired by University College London in 1850. The Auto-icon is kept on public display at the end of the South Cloisters in the main building of the College. For the 100th and 150th anniversaries of the college, the Auto-icon was brought to the meeting of the College Council, where he was listed as "present but not voting".[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham#cite_note-11) Tradition holds that if the council's vote on any motion is tied, the auto-icon always breaks the tie by voting in favour of the motion.

The Auto-icon has always had a wax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax) head, as Bentham's head was badly damaged in the preservation process. The real head was displayed in the same case for many years, but became the target of repeated student pranks including being stolen on more than one occasion. It is now locked away securely.

There is a plaque on Queen Anne's Gate, Westminster commemorating the house where Bentham lived, which at the time was called Queen's Square Place.

Since it appears they're going to be taking Locke's dead body with them back to the island, I thought it was similar to the way the real Bentham has been preserved and stored in a wooden cabinet and that his vote would break a tie.

[mtj]

All due respect Thor, but I don't understand why we are looking at things about Jeremy Bentham, when it's John Locke we are dealing with.
I just don't get the "name game" the writers are playing with us.

[Thor Twain]

I think the names sometimes give us clues as to what is going on. I don't think it's a game they are playing with us, but I enjoy looking them up and trying to see how they would pertain to the show. At times on the show, they have thought they were an experiment. Locke thought someone was just watching to see if they'd push the button. Also, I think this could be applied to the island or to Jacob, an invisible omniscience. The statement of mind over mind is relevant, too, I think, since so many of the people are 'special'. Walt and Locke seem to have abilities to do things just by thinking them. Ben talks about a 'magic box'. You can see how this is relevant, can't you?

As far as the real Bentham's dead body being preserved, I found that interesting, too, because that's obviously what they're going to do with Locke's body. The change in Locke's name might have significance as to what is going on in the show. It all depends on how deeply you want to get into the show. If you don't want to get into the "name game", you don't have to, but I enjoy it and think it's one of the things that make Lost great.

[Moola]

It's also a hint from the writers that none of the O6 referred to him as John Locke - the all called him Jeremy Bentham, even though one would assume that they would still refer to him as Locke.

[Paxie2]

How could Locke die? The obit had said it was a suicide, but Sayid implied it wasn't. At any rate, if they have to take Locke back to the island, Locke must have more work to do. If he has more work to do, why would the island allow him to die? What can he do dead? What IS dead? :D


Maybe John came back to get the others - then Sydiad took him out cause no way did he want to go back with that freak. lol.. Just guessing.

I thought that Sun wasnt necessarily ON whitmore's side.... she never said that...I thought she wanted to talk to him more.....and I just assumed so she could get back at him because after all he was the one who ordered the boat to explode.

I can see why she would be mad at Jack...If Kate was as far back as Jin was - he would of ran that far back to get her too....

I hate to think that Jin is dead though...Micheal I can part with...

John Locke may have used an assumed name so he wouldnt get publicity attn...he was never much for it, and this way he could slip in and out with the other 6 to talk them back into the island.

The redheaded scientist...dont think she is Annie (but who knows - no one really seems to age on that island anyway) but I am open to the thought that she might be the daughter of Ben & Annie...and his grieving of his missing daughter may have triggered him to steal one for his own.

Kate: I can see her not wanting to take Aaron back - she obviously has gotten attached to him and wouldnt want to risk handing him over to the assume dead Clare or anyone else.

Sawyer:Kate - I figured it was something about his daughter in the states...

[Thor Twain]

Oh, that is an excellent point about Widmore being the one who hired Keamy and was ultimately responsible for the freighter blowing up. You're right. I don't think Sun will go over to his side. She must be setting him up for revenge.

I think they'll end up going back, but I'll bet they leave Aaron behind. I can't imagine them taking him back.

I think the scene with Walt and Hurley may be setting up Walt to be going back to the island. They can now use him and not worry about him outgrowing his role like he did before. One thing I wonder is how they will explain him telling Locke he had work to do in last season's finale.

[annsensei]

I'm glad that they were able to bring walt back. it was funny to see his grandma so nervous talking to hurley.

personally, I LOVE thor's insights to the names. it's been fascinating to see how the names match the philosophies.

I wonder if, in moving the island, something went very wrong. maybe the only way to restore the island is to bring back the O6 as its "constant".

as for going back, I think most of the next season will be spent with the O6 efforts to go back. I don't think we'll even be back to the island until they finally arrive. then the last half of the season will be spent finding out what happened on the island when it moved.

I think the "safe place" tha sayid is taking hurley to is wherever ben is hiding.

[Thor Twain]

personally, I LOVE thor's insights to the names. it's been fascinating to see how the names match the philosophies.



Thanks! :)

[mtj]

Thor, you misunderstood what I said about names.
It's just confusing to me that none of the O6 would refer to Locke as Locke.
And when Hurley tried, Sayid shushed him.
I think Hurley is a big key to what is going on.
He has seen more "dead" people than anyone else, I think.
Which makes me think of the question the writers posed..."What is dead?"
I am pretty darn sure that Walt will be going back with the O6.
And, that Aaron will not.
Walt is as tapped into the island as Locke is.
More questions...
How did Locke get off the island?
How can anyone get back if no one knows where it is?
What? Will the island "resurrect" Locke?
What will be the final battle?
Richard, Ben, their followers and The Losties vs. Widmore?
Where does the Des/Penny story line go from here?
I certainly hope it goes somewhere.
That Des/Penny reunion made me weepy.
They are so the "it couple" of LOST.

[Thor Twain]

Well, for whatever reason, Locke was going by the name of Jeremy Bentham. Obviously, they didn't want the other characters to use his real name to give away the 'surprise' ending. I would think, in terms of the story, he changed his name either because someone was looking for him or because he supposedly died in the plane crash. To tell you the truth, I think they initially were going to have Michael in the coffin. I haven't read that anywhere, but I just have my suspicions about it. If you've seen the obit, it talked about how Jeremy Bentham committed suicide and had a teenage son. Then his funeral was in a black neighborhood. They sure tried to make it look like it was going to be Michael. I don't think Kate's response to Jack about not going to the funeral made much sense, at least with what we know. They were fairly friendly yet on the island, but maybe since he came back and was trying to get everyone to go back to the island, they just figured he was crazy and wanted nothing to do with him, even after his death. I would think they'd fill in those gaps next year.

I think Ben is going to go after Penny, so that would put Desmond into the position of trying to protect her. Also, Desmond is supposed to be Faraday's constant. I think we'll find out that Faraday and his raft made it back to the island before it 'moved'. It wouldn't surprise me if they picked up Jin along the way.

[mtj]

Now I'm losing my continuity.
I thought we saw Faraday and the people in the raft "see" the island disappear.
I hope I'm wrong about that.
Because if they made it back, then I'm convinced that is how Jin survives.

[Moola]

I'll have to go back and watch, but wasn't faraday at least halfway back to the island when the chopper took off? One would assume that they would have barely landed when the island went *poof*.
The only way Jin would have been rescued is if Faraday heard/saw the explosion and turned the boat around.
I fully agree that the writers may have been leaning towards it being Micheal in the funeral home (all signs point to that) but have since turned it around. I hope they are able to make sense of it.

[Thor Twain]

I don't think we saw Faraday and the raft see the island disappear, but I'll have to watch again to be sure. I think the last we saw of them, they were headed for the freighter. If Sawyer had enough time to swim all the way back to the island, then I think Faraday and company had enough time to rescue Jin and make it back to the island on the raft.

[Thor Twain]

We did see Faraday and his raft as the island 'moved'. They showed him and it looked like 5 others on the raft. It did not appear that Jin was with them. This was also clearly after the freighter explosion. It sure looks like Jin is dead.

[mtj]

I don't know Thor, anything is possible on this show. Faraday and company could float around for a few hours and the island reappears. Meanwhile, Jin swims up.

[annsensei]

I think "moving the island" includes sending it further back in time. maybe the time frame that they send it to will include the jin and faraday (and others) that were on the island in the past. that would be a way of bringing back several of the people that have been killed. maybe, like desmond was able, change certain aspects of the "future", maybe moving the island will allow locke and the others to re-write the past.

I can see there being problems in re-writing the past because the 6 aren't there. when the island catches up to the point that ben moves it, the O6 on the island probably disappear, no matter where they were or who they were with or what they were doing. that would cause problems, too. maybe that's why ben is insisting that they ALL need to go back. maybe that's also why everyone that left is having such a hard time. their "constant" is back on the island.

[Thor Twain]

Interesting thoughts, Ann. Maybe the island not only moved location, but in time, too. I love all of the theories this show brings out of its viewers!

I think Faraday has to be back. When he wrote that Desmond would be his constant, it tells me they definitely have plans for him and probably for Desmond, too. Also, there was the budding romance between Faraday and Charlotte that I think they'd like to continue next season.

Geez, it's going to be a LONG wait for next January or February! I think they should move it up and do one big season, 34 episodes, starting this fall. :D

[mtj]

I agree.
I can't believe that ABC misses the ratings draw LOST would pull into the Fall by delaying it until January.

[annsensei]

thor, I LOVE THAT IDEA!!!!! one monster season of 34 shows and then we're all satisfied and they rake in BIG money!!!