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jolau
4.13.17, 4:20 PM
This by no means excuses United Airlines or the security/police officers involved in their treatment of Dr. Dao. I think the regional airline should have better prepared its accomodations for their crews.
However, I do have to ask how come he acted the way he did, and this post focuses on him.
I'm wondering (not just this incident, but personal experience as well) how is it that when someone reaches a certain level of "importance" that their business is more important than others, they will have their way, even though it does things like disrupts how an airline (or an airline's regional partners) conduct their business. But this isn't just the airlines.
I for one have a relative that believes honoring religious obligations or honoring elders takes prescedence over everything else, even if it could cost his younger relative (me) his new job. That and he can complain to his younger relative about his lost luggage. (I now charge him $15 per hour)
My dad's high-end law enforcement colleges thought it was OK to visit my Dad while he was recovering from heart surgery whenever they felt like it, meanwhile his ex-wife and children respected the hospital's visiting hours.

We've seen over the last eight years this complaint about the entitlement mentality of millenials, and a generation of "unspanked" spoiled children that have been coddled by their parents and schools that hand out participation awards. Especially when mass protest movements like OCCUPY or Black Lives Matter start up.
Obviously Dr. Dao is not a millennial. He could have cancelled his appointments or requested someone else take his place, stayed another night in Chicago, and started over the next morning.
There's also Brock Turner. A criminal, and rapist that should be the perfect example of everything the conservatives complain about, and for some reason, not a peep.

Also, Is it possible that Dr. Dao intended to scam the airline?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GgieOw2120c&feature=youtu.be

This isn't the first time Chinese people have tried to pull stunts like this.
Seems to me that certain Chinese people think that if they throw a big enough tantrum, the airline will capitulate to their wants.

http://shanghaiist.com/2016/12/26/hokkaido_airport_brawl.php (http://shanghaiist.com/2016/12/26/hokkaido_airport_brawl.php)

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/chinese-tourists-sing-anthem-in-protest-at-bangkok-flight-delay-1.2344505

http://mashable.com/2015/01/11/chinese-flight-delay/#xKbbRMhS6PqT

http://www.chinaaviationlaw.com/2012/09/07/strange-phenomena-and-chinese-passenger-protests/

jolau
4.14.17, 12:20 AM
Maybe this will work better.
(https://youtu.be/GgieOw2120c)
https://youtu.be/GgieOw2120c

Mike
4.14.17, 12:45 AM
As far as I've heard, he paid for the seat and was boarded.

ImHO, once boarded and you're otherwise obeying the rules, that seat is yours. The fare was paid in good faith, and, presumably, it was sold in good faith that the service would be delivered.

Any other legal intent on the part of any passenger is irrelevant. Either United owed him that trip, or they didn't. I think, at least for now, that they did.

jolau
4.14.17, 5:42 AM
Actually, if his fare was the cheapest, that increases his chances of getting bumped off.

Additionally, the crew can have someone removed if that person's behavior is considered disruptive. Do you think that crew would let him stay on when it turns out he's some sort of nut?

Mike
4.14.17, 10:38 AM
Actually, if his fare was the cheapest, that increases his chances of getting bumped off.

It doesn't make any difference (to me) what he paid for the seat. He was boarded and he was already in it. The seat was his.

And according to United, the amount paid wasn't a factor.

FYI: being "bumped" means "denial of a seat to a confirmed passenger". Dr. Dao was not denied a seat.

United should have decided to bump for the deadheads before boarding paid passengers.


Additionally, the crew can have someone removed if that person's behavior is considered disruptive. Do you think that crew would let him stay on when it turns out he's some sort of nut?
He wasn't being disruptive.

BTW; the video of Dao only indicates a warning to the security guards (wearing illegal "Police" clothing) that he could/would sue if he was not allowed to continue on the flight. Same as anyone might say.

jolau
4.14.17, 3:43 PM
United should have decided to bump for the deadheads before boarding paid passengers.


He wasn't being disruptive.

The deadheads were going to Louisville to work and prevent delays or cancellations down the road. They weren't there for leisure.
This goes back to one of my previous points. How is it that when someone in their teens or twenties protests in front of a bank in the middle of Wall Street, they are called an "entitled millennial" but someone in his 60's is allowed to interfere in how a company conducts itself?
THe passengers were offered $1000 in comepensation, and he was repeatedly asked to leave (including from the crew themselves) and started getting more and more disruptive and belligerent.

Think of it this way, people are going to whip out their phones at the sign of trouble, they're not going to start taking video when things look "normal".

Catstrack
4.15.17, 2:35 AM
Just my two cents, but after working in retail for half my life there is the golden rule of business which is that the customer is always right. Does not mean, in actuality they always are, but the intent of "rule" is protection of the company brand. In business there's also always been another saying, too....that for every single customer who's had a negative experience it comes back ten fold negatively to the company. Now with social media, etc., one can expect the negative public reaction in exponential numbers for United.

Hindsight is 20-20 and I'm sure United wish they could have had a redo of this particular day (and Chicago, too since they will also likely be named in a huge multi-million dollar lawsuit since these were not police, but airport employees).

It's never going to win public sympathy by selecting a seated passenger to give up what they've paid for, physically assault them and drag them off a plane in this manner. Plus overbooking by the airlines is their problem, not the customer's.

jolau
4.17.17, 10:02 PM
He wasn't being disruptive.

BTW; the video of Dao only indicates a warning to the security guards (wearing illegal "Police" clothing) that he could/would sue if he was not allowed to continue on the flight. Same as anyone might say.

Dr. Dao was travelling with his wife, and yet none of the videos show Mrs. Dao on the plane with him. Why is this?

It's because they both got off and the videos are of him after he ran back inside.
This to me shows that he was intentionally was making matters worse for himself.

Mike
4.18.17, 1:09 AM
What is the problem that you have with David Dao, Jolau? Did you lose at poker to him, or something?

Dr. Dao's wife was sitting in a different row, and according to other passengers was visibly upset and disoriented herself. I would be as well.

http://people.com/human-interest/wife-united-airlines-passenger-visibly-shaken-after-altercation/

Catstrack
4.18.17, 4:00 AM
United has a lot of bad press to make up for. Maybe this is a start:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-united-airlines-policy-change-20170416-story.html

Kick people off before they are seated, so they can still miss a flight...but if the money is good enough maybe that works.

jolau
4.18.17, 3:48 PM
I make it a point to keep an eye on the industry I work in. I figure such information would be useful at some point.

The question is, where was the wife when he ran back in? In her former seat or by the door? The information I have has her by the door.
The things I read about him during this incident sounds more and more like someone who willingly escalated the situation as far as he could to maximize what he could get in the lawsuit.

http://www.independentsentinel.com/everyone-wrong-dr-dao-united/ (http://www.independentsentinel.com/everyone-wrong-dr-dao-united/)

Mike
4.18.17, 6:54 PM
If I was him, and in the seat as is shown in the video, then I would have absolutely been just as pissed as him and just as unwilling to leave it.

None of the other actors -- United, the regional, their staffs, or the Chicago Airport Gestapo -- needed to escalate. THEY could have and should found another way around the problem. Like send their deadheaders on another flight, that they had arranged properly.

It is in no way Dr. Dao's doing, nor his wife's or anyone other than the other actors.

I'm sorry that your industry gets smeared with their brush, but don't make it worse by continuing to denigrate the paid customer who was already in his seat.

FYI: the "Independent Sentinel" is extreme rightist fake news (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/independent-sentinel/).

See also this video (from United source) (http://people.com/human-interest/footage-united-airlines-passenger-police-arguing-before-dragged-off-plane/) where it is the fake "law enforcement" creep who is doing the threatening.

jolau
4.19.17, 5:38 PM
This just proves further to me that he believed his business is so important that he felt the right to interfere with the business of others, including that of the airline he was flying on. This man had to work in the morning, so did the deadhead crew. I've already said before that I think that there is an entitlement mentality among people that have certain titles or what have you that says that they are somehow more important than others and/or the rules don't apply to them on the mere fact of their job title, their age, or the generation to which they were born.
They also have a tendency to look down upon people in "lesser" positions and people in service positions tend to get more of this than people in other occupations. People working minimum wage jobs for example.

He could have cancelled his appointments or requested someone else take his place. (And frankly, if I made a doctor's appointment and it got cancelled, I'd be thrilled. I have an hour of my life back)
The disruption to his business would have been minimal.

Mike
4.19.17, 6:55 PM
This just proves further to me that he believed his business is so important that he felt the right to interfere with the business of others, including that of the airline he was flying on. This man had to work in the morning, so did the deadhead crew. I've already said before that I think that there is an entitlement mentality among people that have certain titles or what have you that says that they are somehow more important than others and/or the rules don't apply to them on the mere fact of their job title, their age, or the generation to which they were born.
They also have a tendency to look down upon people in "lesser" positions and people in service positions tend to get more of this than people in other occupations. People working minimum wage jobs for example.

He could have cancelled his appointments or requested someone else take his place. (And frankly, if I made a doctor's appointment and it got cancelled, I'd be thrilled. I have an hour of my life back)
The disruption to his business would have been minimal.

Unbelievable.
So you, Jolau, come down on the side that the customer is never right. Is that it?

I totally disagree. He was right; they were wrong. I hope he ends up with millions, and that they end up with a pantload of new laws and regulations.

https://scontent.fbed1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18033301_1748135145447199_6304738222027263787_n.jp g?oh=149adb2adcfc2a072d253baa18c45e72&oe=59932B3A

jolau
4.23.17, 8:49 PM
Only under normal circumstances. There has to be a point where the "Customer Is Always Right" mantra goes too far and someone has to put their foot down and say "There are situations in which the Customer is WRONG." And frankly, I prefer a Caveat Emptor approach.
Buyer beware.
And frankly, I don't believe there is any venue outside the airlines where behavior like this is acceptable, paying customer or not. Can you imagine someone behaving like this at a bank? The article below uses another example. Texting in class. The teacher continuously having to tell a student to stop texting and pay attention to the lecture.

As for the airline industry itself in many ways I do agree with you, people say they are longing for the days of PanAm or looking for something "hip". Unfortunately, the PanAm days are long gone and "hip" airlines like Virgin America eventually get bought out.
First and Business Class services (Especially Wide-Bodies, narrow-body jets not so much if you are in Europe) are getting more and more lavish, while the purpose of Economy Class is more about cramming as many people in as possible and making as much money off that as they can. Nickel and diming you for things that used to be free, under the guise of "customizing your experience".
They are being more and more like Spirit, Ryan Air, or Southwest. Those seem to be the money-makers, not Virgin America.

http://judymccarver.com/2017/04/the-problem-thats-even-bigger-than-the-ual-debacle.html (http://judymccarver.com/2017/04/the-problem-thats-even-bigger-than-the-ual-debacle.html)

Mike
4.24.17, 11:46 AM
A teacher instructing a student to stop using their phone in class is not even remotely on the same planet with having fake gestapo physically smash the head of a PAID and SEATED customer and then publicly drag them, unconscious, down the aisle of a airplane.

How can you even begin to compare these things?!?!

jolau
4.26.17, 10:30 AM
Private school? Charter? Any time you (or your parents in this case) pay tuition, you technically are a "paid and seated customer".

I've heard of incidents where students have been beaten up like that by faculty or school security. And you have to be out of your mind if you think behavior like that would be tolerated at a private school.